charity wrote:I hope you are really innocent of knowing just how bad CK's statement was. But it is beyond me how it cannot be perceived for what it was.
Why? What's going to happen to me if I'm not "really innocent" of this "knowledge?" What exactly is the ecclesiastical threat here, Sister Nonjudgemental?
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
CaliforniaKid wrote: As for the God of Joseph Smith being a liar, I find it interesting that nobody else there actually disputed this after I pointed out that this is the teaching of D&C 19, the Book of Abraham, and Joseph's letter to Nancy Rigdon. Instead they turned on the Bible like a pack of wolves. Now you're telling me that my reading of these documents is offensive. How come you're the only Mormon who seems to think so?
I don't see any other faithful LDS posting on this thread.
CaliforniaKid wrote: As for the God of Joseph Smith being a liar, I find it interesting that nobody else there actually disputed this after I pointed out that this is the teaching of D&C 19, the Book of Abraham, and Joseph's letter to Nancy Rigdon. Instead they turned on the Bible like a pack of wolves. Now you're telling me that my reading of these documents is offensive. How come you're the only Mormon who seems to think so?
I don't see any other faithful LDS posting on this thread.
I'm talking about at MADB, charity. But you knew that, didn't you?
The Mods over there have been inactive for a couple of weeks, but that seems to have changed in the last couple of days. I've also noticed that Hammer, Pahoran and Juliann have been absent, but Juliann started posting again in the last couple of days. Coincidence?
CaliforniaKid wrote: As for the God of Joseph Smith being a liar, I find it interesting that nobody else there actually disputed this after I pointed out that this is the teaching of D&C 19, the Book of Abraham, and Joseph's letter to Nancy Rigdon. Instead they turned on the Bible like a pack of wolves. Now you're telling me that my reading of these documents is offensive. How come you're the only Mormon who seems to think so?
I don't see any other faithful LDS posting on this thread.
I'm talking about at MADB, charity. But you knew that, didn't you?
You did notice that the thread was closed right after your offensive post, didn't you? No one had a chance to come back after that.
CaliforniaKid wrote: As for the God of Joseph Smith being a liar, I find it interesting that nobody else there actually disputed this after I pointed out that this is the teaching of D&C 19, the Book of Abraham, and Joseph's letter to Nancy Rigdon. Instead they turned on the Bible like a pack of wolves. Now you're telling me that my reading of these documents is offensive. How come you're the only Mormon who seems to think so?
I don't see any other faithful LDS posting on this thread.
I'm talking about at MADB, charity. But you knew that, didn't you?
You did notice that the thread was closed right after your offensive post, didn't you? No one had a chance to come back after that.
I had made the claim that D&C 19 and the other documents have God using deception earlier in the thread, and nobody complained or suggested I was wrong. Instead, they pointed to divine deception (and other crimes) in the Bible. Presumably, they accepted my premise.
And actually, the post where I referred to "the lying God of Joseph Smith" remained unresponded-to overnight. It was not until I reported Kemara this morning that the thread got closed and I suspended. So there was opportunity for people to respond, if they really thought that what I had said was all that offensive.
CaliforniaKid wrote:My post was not specifically addressing Zak. There was another poster just shortly before my post who used the tu quouque argument, as well. His post was the one I was directly responding to.
As for the God of Joseph Smith being a liar, I find it interesting that nobody else there actually disputed this after I pointed out that this is the teaching of D&C 19, the Book of Abraham, and Joseph's letter to Nancy Rigdon. Instead they turned on the Bible like a pack of wolves. Now you're telling me that my reading of these documents is offensive. How come you're the only Mormon who seems to think so?
Your reading is pretty accurate. The God Joseph Smith describes is one of situational morality. Lying is A-OK when He commands it. It's not a horrible insult to accurately describe what Joseph Smith attributed to God.
Nazi: Hey Elohim, are those Jews back there in your closet?
Elohim: Um, uh, no. No, there's no Jews here. [waves fingers] These aren't the Jews you're looking for.
Nazi: [somewhat groggily] these aren't... the jews... I'm looking for... [wanders off]
Ok, does this look pretty contrived and manmade to you? It ought to. This is all manmade stuff. Under what circumstances could one reasonable expect GOD ALMIGHTY to have to tell someone a "white" lie like this? I mean seriously now. God won't tell us whether Noah's Ark was real or mythical, whether Adam and Eve really brought mortality to the Earth through their "Fall" and how that stacks up with evidence of mortality going back billions of years. But he'll tell a "white" lie to get someone out of a jam?
Does this really make any sense to you?
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
Sethbag wrote:But he'll tell a "white" lie to get someone out of a jam?
Does this really make any sense to you?
It makes about as much sense as the atoning for the sins of another, or the necessity of faith.
All that aside, if one views God's deception as white lies, then can you see why we'd find it insulting to call Him a liar whereas mentioning that God sometimes "lies" isn't necessarily the same thing? Furthermore, the phrase "the lying god of Joseph Smith" also seems to be calling Joseph Smith a liar. The word "liar" is too strong when one is talking about white lies. It is insulting.
Anyhow, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the MADB decision. I'm just offering another perspective.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO