Belief in Joseph Smith required for worthiness?

[_SatanWasSetUp]

You don't need to rely on the JofD to show that the prophets will judge us according to Mormon doctrine. Just look at the current Gospel Principles manual, currently taught in every church on every sunday:

The Apostle John taught that "the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son" (John 5:22). The Son, in turn, will call upon others to assist in the Judgment. The Twelve who were with him in his ministry will judge the twelve tribes of Israel (see Matthew 19:28; Luke 22:30). The Nephite Twelve will judge the Nephite and Lamanite people (see 1 Nephi 12:9-10; Mormon 3:18-19). President John Taylor said the First Presidency and the Twelve Apostles in our own dispensation will also judge us (see The Mediation and Atonement, p. 157).

[_Yoda]

You don't need to rely on the JofD to show that the prophets will judge us according to Mormon doctrine. Just look at the current Gospel Principles manual, currently taught in every church on every sunday:

The Apostle John taught that "the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son" (John 5:22). The Son, in turn, will call upon others to assist in the Judgment. The Twelve who were with him in his ministry will judge the twelve tribes of Israel (see Matthew 19:28; Luke 22:30). The Nephite Twelve will judge the Nephite and Lamanite people (see 1 Nephi 12:9-10; Mormon 3:18-19). President John Taylor said the First Presidency and the Twelve Apostles in our own dispensation will also judge us (see The Mediation and Atonement, p. 157).

Interesting.

Good find!

:)

[_SatanWasSetUp]

Both actually. I suspect there is a preliminary judgment and Christ then does the Final Judgment and gets the final say.

So what if we fail the preliminary judgment? Is Christ like the Simon Cowell of Judges, and the prophet and apostles are like Randy and Paula? If Randy and Paula think someone sucks, Simon usually doesn't even bother with his opinion because they're not getting through to Hollywood anyway. If the prophet and apostles think we suck, why should Jesus even waste his time?

[_Yoda]

Both actually. I suspect there is a preliminary judgment and Christ then does the Final Judgment and gets the final say.

So what if we fail the preliminary judgment? Is Christ like the Simon Cowell of Judges, and the prophet and apostles are like Randy and Paula? If Randy and Paula think someone sucks, Simon usually doesn't even bother with his opinion because they're not getting through to Hollywood anyway. If the prophet and apostles think we suck, why should Jesus even waste his time?

On the contrary, Simon has overridden Paula and Randy and sent kids to Hollywood. ;)

[_Infymus]

Maybe Liz you had better create the topic in your baby-crib "Celestial" forum where you can be protected against non canonical works.

Get your boxers out of a knot, Infymus. I was playing devil's advocate.

You know I have a point, though. ;)

The apologetic stance is going to be that you are quoting from something that is not considered LDS Canon.

Now, to your point, most of us "older folks"....those of us who are 40+ and have been members of the Church all this time....were taught JoD principles that were incorporated as gospel fact. I'm not arguing that stance at all.

Older, eh? I'll be 40 this month unfortunately. And boxers, yes indeed.

[_Yoda]

Maybe Liz you had better create the topic in your baby-crib "Celestial" forum where you can be protected against non canonical works.

Get your boxers out of a knot, Infymus. I was playing devil's advocate.

You know I have a point, though. ;)

The apologetic stance is going to be that you are quoting from something that is not considered LDS Canon.

Now, to your point, most of us "older folks"....those of us who are 40+ and have been members of the Church all this time....were taught JoD principles that were incorporated as gospel fact. I'm not arguing that stance at all.

Older, eh? I'll be 40 this month unfortunately. And boxers, yes indeed.

Damn! You're a Pices, too? You would think we would get along better. LOL I turn 44 on March 14, so I've got you beat by a couple of years. ;)

[_Infymus]

Damn! You're a Pices, too? You would think we would get along better. LOL I turn 44 on March 14, so I've got you beat by a couple of years. ;)

Ah eh no, I'm a not a fishy, I'm an ram. What this red hair and ill temperament aren't a giveaway? Fire is my zodiac element after all.

Course I don't think much about the zodiac signs. :)

[_Roger Morrison]

Maybe Liz you had better create the topic in your baby-crib "Celestial" forum where you can be protected against non canonical works.

Get your boxers out of a knot, Infymus. I was playing devil's advocate.

You know I have a point, though. ;)

The apologetic stance is going to be that you are quoting from something that is not considered LDS Canon.

Now, to your point, most of us "older folks"....those of us who are 40+ and have been members of the Church all this time....were taught JoD principles that were incorporated as gospel fact. I'm not arguing that stance at all.

Hi Liz, just a respectful suggestion: "When in jest, make it clear at the time. You might not have another opportunity." YKWISayin'? When i read your 'jest', i too took it seriously, and consequently your credibility when down--to me. Had i not just read your rejoinder...YKWIS ;-) Thanks for your time et al, warm regards, Roger

EDIT: Well looks like i missed the oil calming the waters. Nothing like peace in the ranks. Specially with us Pisces, eh? Me March 19, 75 and counting. Extra warm regards, Roger & out...

[_Jason Bourne]

If Joseph Smith isn't required for the TWI, he certainly is required to get into Heaven. Mormon Doctrine states that Joseph Smith stands at gates of Heaven. You can't get passed him if you don't believe in him.

Wait a minute, it isn't about Joseph Smith, it's about Jesus Christ right? No, it's all about Joseph Smith.

You cannot be a christian in the Mormon church without FIRST fully accepting Smith as a prophet. Jesus is second in line.

Three of the online missionaries have told me this to my question of:

Can I be a believer in Christ within the Mormon church with out accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet?

It is really quite simple

To accept Jesus one must accept the testimony of the ancient apsotles and prophets contained in the Bible. One cannot accept Jesus if the don't accept what these witnesses wrote about him.

In this day, if Joseph Smith really was the Apostle and Prophet of this dispensation then one must accept what he wrote and gave witness to about Jesus to really know and understand who and what Jesus is. If not, no big.

The idea of Joseph Smith judging is the same as what Jesus said to the anceitn apostles about judging the house of Israel. THey judge under his directions. Smith and the LDS prophets and apostles judge this dispensation under the direction of Jesus and the ancient apostles. If the LDS leaders are not apostles and prophets then no big.

There is not worship here any more than an EV worships Peter, John or Paul.

As for the TR "Do have faith in and a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the Latter days" seems to indicate one ought to beleive Joseph Smith was called of God. However, this question uses to refer specifically to Joseph Smith and no longer does.

[_SatanWasSetUp]

Both actually. I suspect there is a preliminary judgment and Christ then does the Final Judgment and gets the final say.

So what if we fail the preliminary judgment? Is Christ like the Simon Cowell of Judges, and the prophet and apostles are like Randy and Paula? If Randy and Paula think someone sucks, Simon usually doesn't even bother with his opinion because they're not getting through to Hollywood anyway. If the prophet and apostles think we suck, why should Jesus even waste his time?

On the contrary, Simon has overridden Paula and Randy and sent kids to Hollywood. ;)

I thought it had to be a majority vote. I don't think Simon could override Randy and Paula, even though at least one of them usually caves to Simon and agrees with him.

I suppose if the Final Judgment really does work like American Idol, you would have Joseph and Brigham denying William Law entrance to the CK, while Jesus might think he should go through. In this case Joseph and Brigham would overrule Jesus, unless one of them caved to Jesus's opinion, swinging the vote in favor of sending him to the CK.

Also, let's say Joseph and Briggie had a good buddy that they want to see get to the CK, but Jesus thinks he's a jerk and doesn't want to send him through. In this case he would get into the CK, while Jesus scowled and maybe walks off in a temper tantrum while saying "Fine, I'm done with this." Of course he is always back in his judge chair the next day.