The Real Hell of Mormonism

[_bcspace]

The Terrestial is not hell in LDS theology. Nor is it a place for people who committed 'minor sins' (those in the Celestial could have also been guilty of such). The Terrestial is for those not valiant in the testimony of Jesus and/or who would not accept the gospel in mortality but did in the afterlife.

Request for official doctrine to back that up please.

D&C 76 and the Guide to the Scriptures entries onthe subjects (Degrees of Glory and Hell).

Can you imagine how such a doctrine would received by non Mormons?

Why even do baptism/temple works for the dead if they are screwed already and will not make it to the CK??? DUH?[/quote]

I suppose it depends on what an opportunity is in this life. Imho, such is different for everyone depending on their character and cicumstances. It could be the very first time they meet the missionaries, it could be a lifetime of one's path intersecting with the LDS Church. Such is not defined in doctrine. However, it is obvious, that those who never hear and have the chance to accept will have that chance for sure in the afterlife and be able to qualify for the CK.

Whoa! Back this bus up! OH MY GOD! I cannot believe I missed that as member!

That's what happens when you're away for even a short time. You forget. Or, equally likely, you never paid any attention at al, or you never where a memeber in the first place.

So then, according to D&C 76, if you die a non Mormon, you will never make it to the CK, EVER, PERIOD.

That's not what it says.

Even if you accept the supposed "vicarious" baptismal/temple proxy work done on earth

If your chance did not come on in mortality and if you so accept, then you may inherit the CK.

by guilted Mormons.

Perhaps you meant 'gilded', but that would be silly.

So WHY even do the sealings? The husband and wife who died as non Mormons will NEVER make it to the CK right?

So they will NOT be together for supposedly ever, so why even do the sealing proxy work??? HMMMM????

To repeat, this only occurs in the case where you rejected your opportunity in mortality (if you had one).

In addition, if you reject in the afterlife as well, the highest degree one can obtain is the Telestial (D&C 76:99-102). Only LDS (this life or the next) can inherit the Celestial or Terrestial.

[_Roger Morrison]

This has to be one of the saddest threads i have ever read. That such despair has been suffered-- if by even no more than you folks-- has to indicate Mormonism is deserving of the condemnation it receieves re its strange doctrines.

However, Mormonism is not alone in its ignorant misconstuence of life and death. The whole primitive hell-heaven human concept rooted, and still does, more psyche suffering "than this world dreams".

Am i stating this as an Atheist? I think not. As a Theist? I don't know. IAM stating this as one who knows more about life than death. In that i'm with the 100% multitude. I respectfully suggest death too i will share with the multitude in total ignorance, beyond the understanding of our physical decomposition back to the elements from which we came.

ANY thoughts concerning ANY biblical suggestion of After-life is, IMSCO, speculative supposition without evidence in the slightest that can stand ANY test.

Actually the Bible says rather plainly: "Eat (not glut) drink (can't live water) and be merry ( happy, you're born to enjoy life and help others do the same) for tomorrow you WILL die." And, "ashes to ashes, dust to dust." Ya can't escape it!

But, one can escape the primitive mythology and fostered ignorance of the ages. One can even attend church for social pleasures, as any other place of entertainment and enjoyment. To think Ecclesiasts and Theologians can lead folks to Heaven, while Scientists and Intellectuals will lead one to Hell, is believed at high risk to personal psyche health and physical well being. As i see it. Warm regards, Roger

[_Sam Harris]

[snip!]...if I didn't dot every I and cross every t.

I have a hard time believing that Heavenly Father really wants us to live like this.

Thoughts?

Heavenly Father DOESN'T want us to live like this. I remember that prison. I hated it, I hated myself for being in it, I hated myself for putting myself in it, I hated myself for not being able to get out, I hated those who felt they could rule over me in it, I hated those who seemed to fare better than me in it. I hated God for supposedly erecting the construct.

Then I learned better and stepped out. And I'm in the world of "I don't really know, but it's ok..." and I'm far more comfortable now. It's the end of the day and I have to go, but I'll type more later.

Hugs,

Samantha

I know exactly what you mean. At this point, I'm just trying to do the best I can to be the best person I know how to be. I'm far from perfect, but I try to be honest with others. I love my family, my friends, and do my best to be supportive of them. I'm responsible at work, and also with my Church calling. I truly enjoy what I do in both of these aspects, which helps.

But the past few years, I've really concentrated on striking a balance between Church, work, and family that is healthy for me both physically and emotionally. And those limits don't always look like they "conform to the party line". ;)

Liz, it sounds like you've discovered what grace is. :-)

[_Sam Harris]

Hi Liz...

Here was my hell...

The CK, the most wonderful holy of all places, where God dwells was simply in my opinion, a horrible place. I could not image it as a place where I would want to be, EVER.

I found myself often overwhelmed with the sorrow that the very best place I could hope to be, would be a place I find disgusting beyond belief.

My mother who converted in her thirties, and was married to my amazing agnostic father, upon her death would to be given to some other man in the CK, while my wonderful, incredibly devoted, loving father would be someplace else, alone.

And, I as a child, with parents unsealed, even if I made it to the highest kingdom, would be left without my family.

EVEN if I, my siblings and mother made it to the CK, I would not be with them. As a child this doctrine was truly as sick as I can imagine.

Even to write this brings up horrible memories of my struggle with this doctrine. Children worry enough about their families, and these disturbing teachings created a lot of pain and heart wrenching sorrow in my early life.

~dancer~

I remember my first time in the temple, asking about my family, my divorced parents, my stepmother and step father, the children my father had sired outside his marriage to my mother who I had learned to love...what would happen to all of them?

The temple worker just said that we'd all be sealed together and "it would be all be worked out in the end". Obviously he couldn't deal with the enormity of the question.

I remember a young girl in my ward who was dealing with her parents' divorce. In a ward where they bragged about how righteous and temple-worthy the singles were (it seemed that every week a new ward member was being called to be a temple worker, and how I strove to be one, thinking this would be my key to acceptance), she was facing the breakdown of her family...she bore her testimony about her faithfulness to God and the Gospel, but she expressed her pain and how she didn't understand...I felt for her. I truly did.

[_Jason Bourne]

The Terrestial is not hell in LDS theology. Nor is it a place for people who committed 'minor sins' (those in the Celestial could have also been guilty of such). The Terrestial is for those not valiant in the testimony of Jesus and/or who would not accept the gospel in mortality but did in the afterlife.

I am pretty sure that I read McConkie saying that the idea of those not valiant in the testimony of Jesus referred to LDS Church members only. His teaching was only members who have the Holy Ghost have a testimony and thus they are the only ones that can be not valiant in such a testimony. He implied that many luke warm members could end up there. I think such teachings is what Liz and others are referring to-a caonstant fear of not being good enough or valiant enough. I know I experiences it.

[_antishock8]

The Real Hell of Mormonism

1) Endless boring meetings that mean nothing, wasting time for a life that you only get to live once. Countless Sundays people could have spent with each other having fun, being outside, or doing something productive. One life to live, and it's wasted on an Animal Farm.

2) Needless guilt over good things like masturbation and coffee in the morning. What a ridiculous, silly cult that would make someone feel bad for having an orgasm, or sipping on some coffee. So much wasted energy feeling bad over things that one never need feel bad about. What a shame.

3) So much money that could have gone toward supporting a family or saving for retirment, but instead it goes to sustain an institution that teaches nothing, wastes your time, and makes you feel bad.

4) Teaching people to pray to nothing, hoping that the Nothing will answer their prayers. What a foolish thing to teach someone. Perpetuating the Santa Claus myth only serves to keep people in a gullible state, conning them out of their time and money. Shameful.

[_Yoda]

What a ridiculous, silly cult that would make someone feel bad for having an orgasm, or sipping on some coffee.

LOL! When I grow tired of my current sig line, I think this one may be next!

[_Yoda]

The Terrestial is not hell in LDS theology. Nor is it a place for people who committed 'minor sins' (those in the Celestial could have also been guilty of such). The Terrestial is for those not valiant in the testimony of Jesus and/or who would not accept the gospel in mortality but did in the afterlife.

I am pretty sure that I read McConkie saying that the idea of those not valiant in the testimony of Jesus referred to LDS Church members only. His teaching was only members who have the Holy Ghost have a testimony and thus they are the only ones that can be not valiant in such a testimony. He implied that many luke warm members could end up there. I think such teachings is what Liz and others are referring to-a caonstant fear of not being good enough or valiant enough. I know I experiences it.

Yes, Jason. This is what I was referring to. Thank you, also, for your very detailed response earlier.

BC, to clarify, I was not stating that the Terrestrial Kingdom was hell in LDS theology. I was stating that the fear I, and other members I grew up with and spoke with had of only making it to the Terrestrial Kingdom while our families may make it to the Celestial, and the thought of being without them for eternity was our personal hell.

I really appreciate everyone's responses. It's amazing how many different interpretations there are regarding the Plan of Salvation, which, you would think, would be a basic, universal teaching in the Church.

As BC pointed out in one of his earlier statements, I think that where the gray area of all of this comes in, is that we don't really know what God's definition of rejection of the Gospel is. If you believe that God knows everyone's true heart, then, as the temple worker who was talking to Sammy stated, you have to have faith that God will be fair, and that it will "all work out in the end."

[_Scottie]

I cringe when I hear people say, "I love the gospel and its simplicity!"

I think to myself, "What in THE HELL are you talking about??? There is absolutely NOTHING simple about the gospel!!!"

Sins of commission
Sins of omission
If you doubt the leaders, you are sinning
A slothful servant needs to be told what to do (=sin)
If you turn down a calling, it's a sin
It's a sin to neglect your family

[_Sam Harris]

I remember a friend talking to me about sins of omission and comission...I was like, WTF?