"I really struggle with polygamy"

[_Some Schmo]

I honestly don't see why anyone would struggle with plural marriage. I don't.

That's because you're from the planet Kolob.

[_ludwigm]

...
practice that relegates women BELOW men
...

Is this a scientific description of the missionary position?

If it is, then I will use this expression to look like more scholarly.

[_bcspace]

I honestly don't see why anyone would struggle with plural marriage. I don't.

You are either lying or you haven't a clue about a woman's worth in regards to how she feels.

Neither of your hypothesis is true.

That's because you're from the planet Kolob.

I didn't know there was such a planet in LDS theology......

Excuse me. Never-Mo lady here has a question or two.

Allegations regarding Joseph Smith aside, what is the purpose of eternal polygamy? Let's say that eternal marriage is possible including procreation. Why would a man need more than one wife to populate worlds/planets when he has eternity to do so?

Since plural marriage exists, there will obviously be more women in the highest degree than men. Perhaps it's not a matter of need to populate and more of a need to be married.

I can't be nice about this.

You can do anything you put your mind to.

Do you not see this for the powerful draw to gullible wishful thinking wage earning/tithe paying men to nourish the self feeding organism that the church is in order to retain his membership and his tithing?

No. For example, I do not see it as a lust issue or anything like that. Why go through all the trouble of getting married and having to care for someone when you can get all the sex you want elsewhere?

Well, I said I can't be nice about it.

I did not perceive that you were not nice.

[_Jason Bourne]

Thanks for sharing that Jason.

However, I wonder how you weigh out the other things that Joseph Smith came up with(in my opinion).

I try to look at all he brought forth with objectivity as well as to review the information about it that we have.

Much of the temple ceremony, temple marriage, and the whole eternal family doctrines come from Smith's revelation on polygamy.

Do you not ask yourself, "If Joseph Smith made up the polygamy, what other things did he pull out of his hat?". Especially given his track record.

My take on Joseph is that he had inspiration from God to start his movement and was part of a number of restoration movements that were going on at that time. I think he started out well but as time moved on things that were his own ideas came into play. I would say I am pretty comfortable with most things up till about 1835 in the Church. After that it is difficult to say.

As for the temple and the idea of eternal families I think there is truth and error mixed in. I am well aware of the development of the temple ceremony and it ties to the roll out of plural marriage and its roots in masonry.

[_truth dancer]

I honestly don't see why anyone would struggle with plural marriage. I don't.

I have to say, I think you are the first person I have ever come across who doesn't at least understand to some degree why polygamy is problematic. Even those LDS men who are looking forward to the day usually can see why it may be difficult for many people.

I have observed that women who are fine with polygamy either do not like sex, do not like men, do not like their husbands, do not enjoy emotional intimacy, prefer being with other women, do not like marriage and/or just prefer the harem lifestyle where a man has limited time involved with the family.

Perhaps the women you know are just not the marrying type which may explain your inability to understand why most women do not enjoy having their husbands sleep with other women.

Or, perhaps you cannot comprehend the sorrow, degradation, humiliation, and denigration that most women feel as they are treated as cattle, considered like an animal as men treat them as nothing more than an object to be screwed and a body to be used.

Maybe we can help you understand just a bit. Probably not but who knows... ;-)

Let's assume you love your wife and enjoy her company even if you do not think she is attractive or hot or whatever (I do not know your situation). If you don't love, enjoy, and care for your wife just pretend for a sec, that you do.

How would you feel if you were told that your wife is going to have ten new husbands, say the High Councilmen in your Stake. She would now spend about two days a month with you and your children (if you have some). YOU OTOH will not get to have a woman in your life with the exception of a day or two a month. During the time your wife spends with you she will be busy with your children and taking care of a few practical matters. She may or may not want to be emotionally or physically or sexually intimate with you so basically, your relationship is no longer one of connection, partnership, care, concern, sex, love, friendship. She more or less visits you now and then... a dozen or two times a year. As time goes on, the newer husbands are more enticing and fun and her visits become less and less.

While you take care of your home as a single parent, your wife is sleeping with the more powerful and wealthy men in your area.

And, to better understand the difficulty women have, as a now basically single dad, you can't keep your current job so you find a job making about 1/10th your current income. Rather than the nice $100,000 income you enjoyed, you are now trying to survive on $10,000 a year. (I have no idea how much you make I'm just trying to help you understand the dynamics of what goes on when a woman shares her husband... if a woman is following the prophet and staying at home raising children, when her husband becomes involved with other women their income is now divided between all the wives and his various families).

The reality is, the intimacy, connection, love, partnership, care, concern, even sexual passion that is possible with a couple who is committed to each other and shares their lives and their selves exclusively with each other is gone when one partner is sharing him or herself with others.

Moving along... society suffers when men do not have a partner. This is not rocket science. The reason polygamy is rare in humans is because it is not in the best interest of human beings and human society. Males do not do well when they are unable to mate. The more the wealthy and powerful men take women, the fewer men will have a partner. The ramifications are clear on this. This is in large part why humans have evolved to clearly and overwhelmingly favor monogamy.

I find it funny that many of the men who are so looking forward to the day of polygamy would actually be left out in the cold as the more wealthy and powerful men gather up all the young, attractive, and fabulous women. ;-)

Finally, lets talk about STD, infections, HIV, condoms, and the reality of what is entailed when a man is sleeping around. I won't get into the details. One word... GROSS!

I'm guessing you still will not see a problem with polygamy... oh well.

:-)


~dancer~

[_Yoda]

Doc,

In my experience while observing members discuss this and use such phrases when discussing polygamy, I conclude that believing members are are torn over how they feel and how they are supposed to feel.

Most feel that polygamy is an abombination. An abhorrent practice that relegates women BELOW men to nothing more than another field in for the polygamist man to plant his seed.

Where is the love? Where is the commitment? The bonding? The respect?

Yet on the other hand, Mormons who "struggle with polygamy" also fear that god will smite them for harboring ill feelings towards the beloved Brother Joseph.

You are exactly on the money with this, Boaz. One thing I would clarify here. I don't think it's so much the fear of God smiting us for ill feelings toward Joseph Smith...it's the fact that if this revelation is, in fact, the "real deal", (which I'm not convinced it is), that polygamy is an eternal law, and to rally against it, is to rally against God, himself.

[_Yoda]

I honestly don't see why anyone would struggle with plural marriage. I don't.

*sigh* BC, BC....Darling..I do like you. You are my favorite misogynist, but a misogynist, nonetheless. ;)

TD brings up some good points in how to basically "turn the tables", if you will allow yourself to do so:

How would you feel if you were told that your wife is going to have ten new husbands, say the High Councilmen in your Stake. She would now spend about two days a month with you and your children (if you have some). YOU OTOH will not get to have a woman in your life with the exception of a day or two a month. During the time your wife spends with you she will be busy with your children and taking care of a few practical matters. She may or may not want to be emotionally or physically or sexually intimate with you so basically, your relationship is no longer one of connection, partnership, care, concern, sex, love, friendship. She more or less visits you now and then... a dozen or two times a year. As time goes on, the newer husbands are more enticing and fun and her visits become less and less.

Even placing this into an eternal perspective, doesn't it seem like this arrangement is setting up a spouse for loneliness? Even if we reach a point where jealousy ceases to exist, the dynamic in this type of situation is not one of a partnership.

Charity always uses the argument of "you don't love one child more than another child, yet your relationship with each one is different."

Yes, that's true, but I don't want or expect the parent/child dynamic in a marriage. That is basically what the dynamic is being reduced to. And, it is being reduced to that dynamic with the man, or priesthood holder, being placed in the parent role.

You're an intelligent person, BC. Surely you can grasp these concepts?

[_asbestosman]

What I don't understand is this: if the tables were turned and a goddess like liz could have all the guys she wanted, why would she have any at all? Guys seem pretty dumb after all.

Polyandry might be kinda fun though. I could try for any woman around even if she were already married. So if I weren't already married to my wife I might have been able to get a shot at it anyhow. Depending on how dumb the guy is compared to my own dumbness, I might even be able to woo her over to preferring me.

[_Yoda]

What I don't understand is this: if the tables were turned and a goddess like liz could have all the guys she wanted, why would she have any at all? Guys seem pretty dumb after all.

Silly boy! Don't you know that men are only good for one thing?

;)

[_The Nehor]

What I don't understand is this: if the tables were turned and a goddess like liz could have all the guys she wanted, why would she have any at all? Guys seem pretty dumb after all.

Silly boy! Don't you know that men are only good for one thing?

;)

Washing cars?