WOW: A must watch! Admissions of a mission prez!

[_bcspace]

My preference would be to remove from the rolls as members all those who don't attend Church (unless they are very sick, elderly/invalid, etc.) for a certain amount of time; say a year.

However, I do also see value in keeping on the records all who have professed by baptism to keep the covenants thereof, recognizing that many may lose their way and holding out hope that they may yet find it again and that we can be instrumental in that.

[_Boaz & Lidia]

I would like to ask him WHY the records department HAS NOT removed all of those membership records that he knew was obtained with dishonest means.

Perhaps he himself is being dishonest? I find that more likely.

Then why is he still a BYU prof and now a temple prez?

You make no sense.

[_bcspace]

You make no sense.

Indeed. Perhaps my eyes were blinded by the craftiness of men. My bad.

[_capt jack]

Besides, who cares? The only people who do are those who base their testimony on Church growth (we'll lose them eventually anyway) and those who are sure the Church is rapidly shrinking and want it to die faster (why in the world would the Church care enough to spend tithing money and member time to do a purge to satisfy these nitwits?)

Who cares? How about the locals who have to clean up after the idiotic missionaries? The same locals who have home teaching routes with 20 names on them, names that might or might not be real. The locals who get beat up for having such low Sunday attendance and home teaching percentages. They care alot.

[_The Nehor]

Besides, who cares? The only people who do are those who base their testimony on Church growth (we'll lose them eventually anyway) and those who are sure the Church is rapidly shrinking and want it to die faster (why in the world would the Church care enough to spend tithing money and member time to do a purge to satisfy these nitwits?)

Who cares? How about the locals who have to clean up after the idiotic missionaries? The same locals who have home teaching routes with 20 names on them, names that might or might not be real. The locals who get beat up for having such low Sunday attendance and home teaching percentages. They care alot.

That's the easy part. Lost Sheep file dump.

[_capt jack]

Besides, who cares? The only people who do are those who base their testimony on Church growth (we'll lose them eventually anyway) and those who are sure the Church is rapidly shrinking and want it to die faster (why in the world would the Church care enough to spend tithing money and member time to do a purge to satisfy these nitwits?)

Who cares? How about the locals who have to clean up after the idiotic missionaries? The same locals who have home teaching routes with 20 names on them, names that might or might not be real. The locals who get beat up for having such low Sunday attendance and home teaching percentages. They care alot.

That's the easy part. Lost Sheep file dump.

Then write Salt Lake and ask them to dump them already; while some names have gone to the lost file, too many haven't.

Or better yet, write and suggest they simply send the records of all new baptisms straight to the Lost Sheep file--save some time, cut out the middle men.

[_BishopRic]

So the Church can not find 210,000 members in Chile, cuts back the number of stakes and wards significantly, but apparently they never removed the names from the roles of the church or else you would have seen a decline in total membership or at least nearly flat from one year to the next. What BS.

Because we don't excommunicate people just because we can't find them? Some are undoubtedly fraudulent but should we purge everyone we can't find and hope none of those people are real?

Besides, who cares? The only people who do are those who base their testimony on Church growth (we'll lose them eventually anyway) and those who are sure the Church is rapidly shrinking and want it to die faster (why in the world would the Church care enough to spend tithing money and member time to do a purge to satisfy these nitwits?)

The rapid growth of the church is definitely used as a "sales tool" by the missionaries. Now I know the ultimate goal is to get the investigator to get that special feeling, but until then, many tactics are thrown around to convince the investigators to join.

I've frequently heard the "how could 13 million people be wrong" phrase -- which never made sense, since there are so many more Catholics, Muslims, etc....

[_cinepro]

In my payroll system at work, I have three classes of employees: Active, Inactive, and Terminated. The Inactive employees may be away because they have another temporary job (I'm in the film industry), or we might be slow and not need as many employees. Then I have my full time "Active" staff that are always there. When people ask how many employees I have, I say "X number full time, and X number part time/ on call". It isn't too hard.

Why couldn't the Church just say "We have X members on the rolls, and X actively attending"? Or something like that.

The story of the newsletter and the numbers is a good example of how the reported numbers served to focus and motivate the mission presidents. If we made both the active and the inactive numbers public, I think it would similarly focus the whole Church on both important numbers.

[_The Nehor]

So the Church can not find 210,000 members in Chile, cuts back the number of stakes and wards significantly, but apparently they never removed the names from the roles of the church or else you would have seen a decline in total membership or at least nearly flat from one year to the next. What BS.

Because we don't excommunicate people just because we can't find them? Some are undoubtedly fraudulent but should we purge everyone we can't find and hope none of those people are real?

Besides, who cares? The only people who do are those who base their testimony on Church growth (we'll lose them eventually anyway) and those who are sure the Church is rapidly shrinking and want it to die faster (why in the world would the Church care enough to spend tithing money and member time to do a purge to satisfy these nitwits?)

The rapid growth of the church is definitely used as a "sales tool" by the missionaries. Now I know the ultimate goal is to get the investigator to get that special feeling, but until then, many tactics are thrown around to convince the investigators to join.

I've frequently heard the "how could 13 million people be wrong" phrase -- which never made sense, since there are so many more Catholics, Muslims, etc....

I must admit I've never heard that phrase used by LDS. Considering the book we hand out ends with one person being right and everyone else wrong, the argument seems weak to me.

If numbers who accept a concept confers truth, we should bow to China in awe of their wisdom.

[_The Nehor]

In my payroll system at work, I have three classes of employees: Active, Inactive, and Terminated. The Inactive employees may be away because they have another temporary job (I'm in the film industry), or we might be slow and not need as many employees. Then I have my full time "Active" staff that are always there. When people ask how many employees I have, I say "X number full time, and X number part time/ on call". It isn't too hard.

Why couldn't the Church just say "We have X members on the rolls, and X actively attending"? Or something like that.

The story of the newsletter and the numbers is a good example of how the reported numbers served to focus and motivate the mission presidents. If we made both the active and the inactive numbers public, I think it would similarly focus the whole Church on both important numbers.

Sounds like a good idea but who's going to keep track of the second number. Bishops and Clerks have enough to do. We could use attendance numbers but if people attend half the time they're still active but they would throw the number way off. I was told as a teenager that about a quarter to a third of the numbers of our rolls worldwide are active. Was no one else told this?