Sam Harris wrote:When will people learn that we all stumble in life, we all have tears and disappointments, and the worst thing we can do is to ostracize some because they've had more than their fair share?
Of COURSE we shouldn't ostracize them. But does that mean we have to marry them?
Since when did we not get to list our own criteria of what is acceptable in a spouse?
Why not marry them? What are the cutoffs? Because if a trip-up is a automatic disqualifier, then the human race is on the way to extinction.
Here's my no-nos. You cannot abuse me, yourself, my kids or others. Your past is your past. Why? Because I have one. Your future is as bright as you have the faith that it will be.
If I had allowed the judgements of others to color my future I'd be dead.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
Sam Harris wrote:When will people learn that we all stumble in life, we all have tears and disappointments, and the worst thing we can do is to ostracize some because they've had more than their fair share?
Of COURSE we shouldn't ostracize them. But does that mean we have to marry them?
Since when did we not get to list our own criteria of what is acceptable in a spouse?
I understand what you're saying here, but I think the point is that a sexual past shouldn't be a determining factor when considering a potential mate. If the only problem you have with a person is that they aren't a virgin, I recommend grabbing that person ASAP.
I can't think of a more ill-informed decision than not having premarital sex. Marrying as a virgin is one of the most unnecessary pain-inducing ideas ever foisted on the world, and if one gives it even a moment's unbiased-by-a-weird-concept-of-morality thought, one can't help but realize this. Why enter into one of the most important agreements one will ever make (marriage) without knowing the details of one of the most vital aspects of that agreement? It's beyond idiotic.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
I can't think of a more ill-informed decision than not having premarital sex. Marrying as a virgin is one of the most unnecessary pain-inducing ideas ever foisted on the world, and if one gives it even a moment's unbiased-by-a-weird-concept-of-morality thought, one can't help but realize this. Why enter into one of the most important agreements one will ever make (marriage) without knowing the details of one of the most vital aspects of that agreement? It's beyond idiotic.
YOU are loverly! :)
Sex is sooooo damn important in a (healthy!) marriage. WHY people pretend it's not I can NOT fathom! Being intimate with your partner is important, certain chemicals are released that help with long term bonding, people are just NICER to each other when they have sex often (who is crabby when they're snuggling or looking forward to a quickie?), and it's just a natural human drive that needs to be quelled for many people -- especially men, imho. I saw a study a while back that said men's sexual drive stayed constant while women's dropped significantly in long term relationships... if women understood that men NEEDED this (men just feel cared for by a simple act -- it's so simple!:) as a part of a healthy relationship maybe there would be less problems with ensuring everyone had their needs met.
Sex is important in relationships, why we pretend it's not is nuts. Well, I don't pretend. :)
Sam Harris wrote:When will people learn that we all stumble in life, we all have tears and disappointments, and the worst thing we can do is to ostracize some because they've had more than their fair share?
Of COURSE we shouldn't ostracize them. But does that mean we have to marry them?
Since when did we not get to list our own criteria of what is acceptable in a spouse?
Why not marry them? What are the cutoffs? Because if a trip-up is a automatic disqualifier, then the human race is on the way to extinction.
Here's my no-nos. You cannot abuse me, yourself, my kids or others. Your past is your past. Why? Because I have one. Your future is as bright as you have the faith that it will be.
If I had allowed the judgements of others to color my future I'd be dead.
So, you are saying that if everyone doesn't abide by your principles of selecting a partner that they are jerks?
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
Some Schmo wrote:I understand what you're saying here, but I think the point is that a sexual past shouldn't be a determining factor when considering a potential mate. If the only problem you have with a person is that they aren't a virgin, I recommend grabbing that person ASAP.
As with Sammi, I don't know where this notion came in that you can dictate just how picky someone is allowed to be. If they are more picky than you, they are automatically labeled a jerk! If they are less picky than you, they are labeled blind and stupid.
Why is that we want to force our own criteria for selecting a partner on everyone else??
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
Sam Harris wrote:When will people learn that we all stumble in life, we all have tears and disappointments, and the worst thing we can do is to ostracize some because they've had more than their fair share?
Of COURSE we shouldn't ostracize them. But does that mean we have to marry them?
Since when did we not get to list our own criteria of what is acceptable in a spouse?
Why not marry them? What are the cutoffs? Because if a trip-up is a automatic disqualifier, then the human race is on the way to extinction.
Here's my no-nos. You cannot abuse me, yourself, my kids or others. Your past is your past. Why? Because I have one. Your future is as bright as you have the faith that it will be.
If I had allowed the judgements of others to color my future I'd be dead.
So, you are saying that if everyone doesn't abide by your principles of selecting a partner that they are jerks?
You're getting out of hand here. No. Read the last sentence, and try again. If I had allowed others to convince me (especially in the LDS church) that I was an ugly black whore, I'd have gone suicidal again. But I'm better, stronger, and more beautiful than that. And those who tried to make me believe that were far worse than jerks.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
Sam Harris wrote:You're getting out of hand here. No. Read the last sentence, and try again. If I had allowed others to convince me (especially in the LDS church) that I was an ugly black whore, I'd have gone suicidal again. But I'm better, stronger, and more beautiful than that. And those who tried to make me believe that were far worse than jerks.
But for me, saying I wouldn't want to marry someone is not the same as saying that I think the person is not worthwhile, should never be married, or is someone I wish to avoid. Do women think that if you love someone you must be willing to marry them?
I think there's some kind of breakdown in communication between men and women on the marriage issue. I don't see marriage as defining my sense of worth in the eyes of others. I see it as defining compatibility for marriage only. Besides, I already think most people have a farily low opinion of me.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Sam Harris wrote:You're getting out of hand here. No. Read the last sentence, and try again. If I had allowed others to convince me (especially in the LDS church) that I was an ugly black whore, I'd have gone suicidal again. But I'm better, stronger, and more beautiful than that. And those who tried to make me believe that were far worse than jerks.
I guess I'm not getting what you're trying to say here.
I thought you were saying that because these men didn't want to marry you, that you took that as a blow to your self worth? And that you believe that a man shouldn't dismiss a woman because of an abused past.
Am I understanding you correctly?
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
Sam Harris wrote:You're getting out of hand here. No. Read the last sentence, and try again. If I had allowed others to convince me (especially in the LDS church) that I was an ugly black whore, I'd have gone suicidal again. But I'm better, stronger, and more beautiful than that. And those who tried to make me believe that were far worse than jerks.
But for me, saying I wouldn't want to marry someone is not the same as saying that I think the person is not worthwhile, should never be married, or is someone I wish to avoid. Do women think that if you love someone you must be willing to marry them?
I agree with this. I married a man with emotional problems -- I would NOT do that again. I loved him for almost 10 years....
I think there's some kind of breakdown in communication between men and women on the marriage issue. I don't see marriage as defining my sense of worth in the eyes of others. I see it as defining compatibility for marriage only. Besides, I already think most people have a farily low opinion of me.
I have a great regard for you, asbestosman!
I think there is a breakdown of communication here. I think what Sami is attempting to relay (and some other women) is that people assume that they ARE a certain way 'cause of their past. I think if a man doesn't want certain traits then that's fine. If a man wants a virgin, that's fine too. I don't care. Yet, telling people (as routinely done in the LDS Church) that they are dirty and disgusting because things in their past (especially things done TO THEM) makes women feel very, very, very flawed... It hurts them.
I see a lot of hurt on this thread. Nehor and Scottie are routinely rejected by women! GIMR joined the Church then was made to feel second class. It's fine if someone doesn't want someone else for their traits -- yet, assuming something about someone and rejecting them out of hand (when the assumptions are off) is completely different.
I think women and men do have different ideas of what marriage means. At the base it is a compatibility issue, but for women it is much more. If you're gonna marry me, of course you're gonna think it worthwhile. I've been proposed to twice, once recently. If I were to ask the recent one if he thought me worthwhile, I think he'd say yes...he'd consider that...he wouldn't have asked if he didn't think it worth his while, especially after having said his vows seriously once before and having had that gone awry.
What do you mean by compatibility?
You're just fine, dear.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi