A 'Book of Mormon Evidence' implodes at a touch

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_asbestosman
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Post by _asbestosman »

The Dude wrote:In your example the random integers (weak evidences) are independent events, but the weak evidence in the Book of Mormon is all interconnected. There is one simple counter-explanation to explain the events together.

You make a good point about interconnected events. However, I think there may be some that aren't so interconnected. For example, what about NHM? I'm not so sure that can be explained away by appealing to the KJV. Then again, I'm not so sure about the Camoros (Cumorah) / Moroni connection. I think the Moroni thing is weak evidence against authenticity, but it seems rather independent of many other evidences whether for or against authenticity.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy.
eritis sicut dii
I support NCMO
_Brent Metcalfe
_Emeritus
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Post by _Brent Metcalfe »

Hi folks,

Is "dreamed a dream" a reliable indicator of a text's Semitic origin? No.

In addition to usage in the KJV (Gen. 37:5. 9; 40:5, 8; 41:11, 15; Judg. 7:13; Dan. 2:3) and Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress (see the OP), the phrase occurs in other early-19thC literature—even with the non-KJV nuance of Lehi's usage:

    Behold, I have dreamed a dream; or, in other words, I have seen a vision.

    [1 Ne. 8:2, emphasis added; see also 1 Ne. 3:2.]
In the early 19thC, James Ferguson published the early-18thC writings of Joseph Addison:

    [A]nd promising myself that my slumbers would be sweet, I no sooner fell into them, but I dreamed a dream, or saw a vision ...

    [James Ferguson, comp. and ed., The British Essayists, vol. 3 (London: J. Haddon, 1819), 87, bold emphasis added.]
From William Hone, early-19thC readers learned that

    Joe Davis had dreamed a dream, or, as my narrator informed me, had seen a vision.

    [William Hone, The Table Book, vol. 2 (London: Hunt and Clarke, 1828), 478, bold emphasis added.]
One poet put the language to verse:

    And I have seen a vision,—
    And I have dreamed a dream,
    And sure that hour Elysian
    Was no deceiving beam!

    [Mary Ann Browne, Repentance; and Other Poems (London: Longman & Co., 1829), 110, bold emphasis added.]
The simple juxtaposition of "dreamed a dream" with "vision" doesn't appear to have been a linguistic stretch for early-19thC writers:

    [H]is mother, a little time before his birth, dreamed a dream, wherein, in comic vision, she saw an infant son dancing a hornpipe upon Garrick's head.

    [Catherine Oxberry, comp. and ed., Oxberry's Dramatic Biography, and Histrionic Anecdotes, vol. 4 (London: George Virtue, 1826), 128, bold emphasis added.]

    I fell asleep, and dreamed a dream. I saw in my vision ...

    [The Sporting Magazine 20, no. 121 (Oct. 1827): 408, bold emphasis added.]
If anything, "dreamed a dream" merely points to a biblical culture from which the BoMor emerged—a biblical culture much like that of Joseph Smith's.

My best,

</brent>
_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

mms wrote:Seems fair to allow DCP a chance to respond without having to come over here, so I posted it at MADB.


Sorry, no dice---the thread has been closed.
_Brackite
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Post by _Brackite »

Here is the URL Address to that now Closed Discussion Thread:

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... opic=34363
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
_CaliforniaKid
_Emeritus
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Post by _CaliforniaKid »

Mister Scratch wrote:
mms wrote:Seems fair to allow DCP a chance to respond without having to come over here, so I posted it at MADB.


Sorry, no dice---the thread has been closed.


LOL. Oh, the cognitive dissonance!

Thanks to Brent for dropping in and giving us some more great examples.
_beastie
_Emeritus
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Post by _beastie »

Wow, that was a fast closing. So what is The Mandate given to mods that they knew to close the thread that fast? Is it taboo to mention this board, or is it taboo to reveal that the Emperor Dan has on no clothes?
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_asbestosman
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Post by _asbestosman »

beastie wrote:Wow, that was a fast closing. So what is The Mandate given to mods that they knew to close the thread that fast? Is it taboo to mention this board, or is it taboo to reveal that the Emperor Dan has on no clothes?


The mandate is no board wars.

Oh, and it appears that "Emperor Dan" has responded.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy.
eritis sicut dii
I support NCMO
_Chap
_Emeritus
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Post by _Chap »

Brackite wrote:Here is the URL Address to that now Closed Discussion Thread:

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... opic=34363


Holding my nose, I tried the link ... so far as I can see the thread has not only been closed, it has been deleted from the universe.

It is clear that when DCP says something that does not hold water, one must never be so coarse as to point it out.

And they call it a 'discussion board'? What a mockery ...
_Chap
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Post by _Chap »

asbestosman wrote:
beastie wrote:Wow, that was a fast closing. So what is The Mandate given to mods that they knew to close the thread that fast? Is it taboo to mention this board, or is it taboo to reveal that the Emperor Dan has on no clothes?


The mandate is no board wars.

Oh, and it appears that "Emperor Dan" has responded.


Gw'an .... tell us what he said ... we won't snitch on you.
_mms
_Emeritus
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Post by _mms »

What the crap? It did disappear and I think maybe they banned me for posting it? I try to log in over there and it says "you do not have permission to view this board." Banned?
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