Beastie's Signature

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_Jason Bourne
_Emeritus
Posts: 9207
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:00 pm

Post by _Jason Bourne »


I understand that. But, in light of Joseph F. Smith's statement, and the factual record of Joseph Smith's lies (polyandry), fraud (Book of Abraham), and deceit (Where to begin...)... How does a Mormon reconcile that? You have a prophet saying that if THE prophet is exposed as a fraud, as he has been, then... What?



There are many LDS that are well aware of polyandry and they believe it was commanded by God. There are many LDS the do not believe the Book of Abraham is an issue and that it is what it claims. There are many that think what you think is deceit it a spin job or false conclusion. It is not cut and dry. You may have concluded incorrectly.
_moksha
_Emeritus
Posts: 22508
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:42 pm

Post by _moksha »

I think Church members are making a mistake when they tie their faith to every claim about the Church being absolutely true. When only one of their cards is blown with the wind, the entire whole of their belief structure comes tumbling down.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_antishock8
_Emeritus
Posts: 2425
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:02 am

Post by _antishock8 »

Jason Bourne wrote:

I understand that. But, in light of Joseph F. Smith's statement, and the factual record of Joseph Smith's lies (polyandry), fraud (Book of Abraham), and deceit (Where to begin...)... How does a Mormon reconcile that? You have a prophet saying that if THE prophet is exposed as a fraud, as he has been, then... What?



There are many LDS that are well aware of polyandry and they believe it was commanded by God. There are many LDS the do not believe the Book of Abraham is an issue and that it is what it claims. There are many that think what you think is deceit it a spin job or false conclusion. It is not cut and dry. You may have concluded incorrectly.


I understand that. However, when juxtaposed against:

If Joseph was a deceiver, who willfully attempted to mislead people, then he should be exposed, his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false..." (Joseph Fielding Smith "Doctrines of Salvation")

It's been shown that he willfully mislead people reference polyandry, he was exposed, and his claims were thoroughly refuted. Book of Abraham is just another example. When a prophet lays down the gauntlet like that, and it blows up in his face... How do Mormons reconcile it? Do they think JFS was speaking as a man?
You can’t trust adults to tell you the truth.

Scream the lie, whisper the retraction.- The Left
_Loquacious Lurker
_Emeritus
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:49 am

Post by _Loquacious Lurker »

moksha wrote:I think Church members are making a mistake when they tie their faith to every claim about the Church being absolutely true. When only one of their cards is blown with the wind, the entire whole of their belief structure comes tumbling down.



But the church claims that of itself. The LDS church is "the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth" (Doctrine and Covenants, 1:30).
_John Larsen
_Emeritus
Posts: 1895
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:16 pm

Post by _John Larsen »

moksha wrote:I think Church members are making a mistake when they tie their faith to every claim about the Church being absolutely true. When only one of their cards is blown with the wind, the entire whole of their belief structure comes tumbling down.


I'm not sure the Church requires faith in any of their claims, the Church only requires faith in the Church. You don't have to believe anything, you just need to obey your leaders. Part of obedience is not voicing any dissent or opposition, but you can believe what ever the hell you want. You just need to obey.
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