Do women follow the golden rule in romantic relationships?

_Yoda · Post by **_Yoda** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:07 am

Where's Ajax? This thread kind of died on the vine....

Post by **_ajax18** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:30 am

marg wrote:What's the issue or issues you have Ajax. Are you having difficulties with women at work? In a one to one relationship? You seem to be talking from some personal experience which perhaps is unique to your life. What is it you'd like, what is it you are not getting?

Maybe I'm skewed on this one, but I don't really see it as unique to my life. Perhaps my reaction is unique in some ways that I don't fully understand, but the data doesn't really seem unique.

Post by **_ajax18** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:41 am

liz3564 wrote:I absolutely agree with TD. A relationship where one person I
is trying to exude power over the other is not healthy. And, there are actual WOMEN, not girls, who really strive for healthy equality in relationships. Nobody's perfect, but there are those of us who do try.

Speaking to your example of the woman who is "testing" her boyfriend by seeing how badly she can get away with treating him......my simple analysis of this woman is that she is a jerk who cannot be trusted.

You mentioned that you wouldn't mind going into business with her? I would say that would be a HUGE mistake. I know that I couldn't trust someone in a working relationship that involved my money with someone who was acting so irresponsibly in her personal relationship.

I suppose, Ajax, that I can't help you "figure out" the type of woman you are speaking of, because I am not that type of woman. LOL

Have I come into contact with the type of woman you describe? Yes, and I have stayed as far away from this type of person as I could. ;)

You may be right on the business part. Actually I'm married and interact with a lot of younger 20s people in my program. My point wasn't so much that this girl was a jerk but rather the disparity I see in her behavior between romantic relationships and other parts of her life. If I were the poor kids in South America she served on her medical mission trip, I'd have a much different view of her than I would have gotten from a romantic relationship/encounter. So I can't just paint her with the broad stroke of selfishness. It still perplexes me.

Post by **_ajax18** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:48 am

liz3564 wrote:Ajax, let me ask you a couple of questions. Are you in a relationship right now?

What would be your ideal type of fair relationship?

I'd really have to give that one some thought. Women and men seem so different to me that the calculations would be pretty complex.

During dating most guys felt like, If I'm in shape she should be as well, but you can't really grade it like that because most men are in better physical shape than women (at least in American Mormonism in your early 20s). Being overweight seems to hit females harder. Just like saying if I'm handsome, she should be pretty. Most men just aren't that pretty.

Yet part of my philospohy on life and religion is that there must be fairness, and everything must be considered.

Post by **_ajax18** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:52 am

The Nehor wrote:Find someone who takes great pleasure in making you happy. Then go and do thou likewise for them.

I've found that in life we have to choice to be generous and try to make other people happy. We don't have the choice of finding someone who takes great pleasure in making ourselves happy. In other words, we have the choice of how we treat other people. We do not have the power to choose how we are treated. That's partly why I hang on so tightly to my own religious notions.

Post by **_ajax18** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:55 am

Scottie wrote:As long as we're throwing stereotypes out here...

Do men feel like they need to be equal in the housework?
Do men feel like they are equal in raising the kids?
Do men feel like they are equal in cooking?
Do men feel like they are equal in paying the bills?
Etc, etc, etc.

Or are all these "women's jobs"?

You know these fairness questions seem to depend on what standard of fairness you choose. Do you choose, "equality of oppurtunity," or "equality of result," So my question is not whether fairness should exist. It must exist. My question is how we should measure it?

Post by **_ajax18** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:03 am

antishock8 wrote:Ajax,

I'm not sure what you're driving at. Would you be kind enough to bulletize your questions? That being said, I'll chip in with my two cents on this question:

Do women follow the golden rule in romantic relationships?

The answer to that question is an emphatic "NO". Here's why:

1) Human beings are afflicted with a severe case of myopia.

2) Human beings are islands unto themselves. This creates emotional isolationism, which in turn leads to a bad case of nihilism which leads to selfishness.

3) Women, in particular, are taught dozens of social and cultural lessons that subordinate their identities to materialism and the Patriarchy. It's hard to be altruistic when you're objectified. Once objectified the human seeks nihilism and selfishness as coping mechanisms.

4) Men are objectified by society in the sense that they're "providers". In other words, we're walking, talking ATM's, and people have a sense of entitlement to what we earn. Mens' value is often defined by what we accrue, and how much we can provide. Someone who's indentity is based in materialism with escapsit nihilistic tendencies will objectify the man, at a minimum, as much as she herself has been objectified. Men who succumb to this compartmentalized existence will wield their wealth with as much fervor as a beautiful woman will show some skin. It's just the way things are.

Yeah I guess my problem was that I understood this situation before I even reached puberty. So while I think you're dead on with, "That's the way it is." I can't help but refuse to participate. I guess that will throw my kind out of the gene pool. I must be a real abberation. An alpha male, or future alpha male, who finds himself perpetually pissed off at the way things are. Very weird indeed. Seriously, I may be making big money in a few years, and my physique won't let up until I fall over with a heart attack at 50 (it's just the body I got). Yet I wouldn't pay one dime for sex, and that includes implicitly (marriage) as well as explicit prostitution. Any woman of mine better earn her keep with something other than giving it up. That's not alpha male behavior at all. And yet that seems part of the natural man within me. It goes against my Mormon religion.

Your best bet to find an equal is to find an equal. Someone who has a career, real hobbies, passionate pursuits, etc... That kind of person will view you less as something he or she can use, and more as someone he or she wants as a friend. Friends are generally better suited to meet each other's needs that are less egocentric. So if you want a lover, find a friend.

Post by **_Moniker** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:07 am

ajax18 wrote:Women and men seem so different to me that the calculations would be pretty complex.

I want to see the calculation when you're finished computing. Please.

_Yoda · Post by **_Yoda** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:09 am

You mentioned that you are married. Do you feel like the relationship you and your wife have is "fair" or balanced?

What types of goals do you two set to achieve the kind of relationship you want?

Post by **_ajax18** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:42 am

3) Women, in particular, are taught dozens of social and cultural lessons that subordinate their identities to materialism and the Patriarchy. It's hard to be altruistic when you're objectified. Once objectified the human seeks nihilism and selfishness as coping mechanisms.

Do you think women objectifying men is really the result of being subordinated to the patriarchy? Is there some kind of revenge motive that results from objectification. Objectification, especially what women are talking about is sort of abstract to me, obviously since I'm not a woman. The girl I'm speaking of (and I'm sure there are many like her) will be a Dr. soon. Are you telling me that her parents, teachers, and everyone who raised her has always told her that she's only good for sex and because of that she's taking it out on her significant other? I guess I just don't see the excuse. And she is altruistic, just not in romantic relationships.

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Your best bet to find an equal is to find an equal. Someone who has a career, real hobbies, passionate pursuits, etc... That kind of person will view you less as something he or she can use, and more as someone he or she wants as a friend. Friends are generally better suited to meet each other's needs that are less egocentric. So if you want a lover, find a friend.[/quote]