Joseph Smith the Prophet

[_Ray A]

Yeah, but only if it comes from the First Presidency?

I'm going to respond to the rest of your post tomorrow cuz my sister (HUGE ALL BLACKS FAN!) just came over.

No worries. I know what All Blacks fans are like.

[_squawkeye]

Lamanite wrote: "To trust implicitly in temporal science and knowledge is an extreme position; one which I will not assume. Especially since the sciences are always changing and growing."

Isn't this the basic definition of 'a church led by a prophet and ongoing revelation'?

All this would be so much simpler if LDS Inc would just dig up the bones of Zelph and prove he really is of Jewish heritage. People would stop laughing and Spencer W. Kimballs statement about our bud 'lamanite' would finally let him know he is one, not a Nephite, since he doesn't believe the statement of a 'prophet' as to what he really is.

[_solomarineris]

Will we ever agree to disagree? Doubt it. But will one of you ever admit that the Joseph restored a Church that has redeemed me from Hell and brought me into the light and Redemption of Jesus Christ. If you can concede this fact, then why fight against it?
Big UP!
Lamanite

Why, of coourse I agree with you, Lamanite.
I will never do such thing as fighting against your faith... I concede that you believe that
you are a Lamanite.
Where are you from, again? I take it one of the Pacific Islands.
Do you think Lehi stopped took vacations each of those islands on
his way to Promised Land to propagate his seed?
It is possible.
HighFive!

[_Lamanite]

Will we ever agree to disagree? Doubt it. But will one of you ever admit that the Joseph restored a Church that has redeemed me from Hell and brought me into the light and Redemption of Jesus Christ. If you can concede this fact, then why fight against it?
Big UP!
Lamanite

Why, of coourse I agree with you, Lamanite.
I will never do such thing as fighting against your faith... I concede that you believe that
you are a Lamanite.
Where are you from, again? I take it one of the Pacific Islands.
Do you think Lehi stopped took vacations each of those islands on
his way to Promised Land to propagate his seed?
It is possible.
HighFive!

You're missing the point. I don't know if I'm a Lamanite. And to be honest, I don't really care. That's kind of my own little inside joke.

What is to be conceded is that I was lost, and now am found through the merits and grace of Jesus Christ.

If my happiness is of any value to you, then I would ask; why the enmity? Celebrate my freedom and liberation from a life of bondage and sin.

If you are here to save those miserable souls whose life is horrible because of Mormonism then I may understand, but I just don't think that's your motive.

Am I wrong?

Big UP!

Lamanite

[_harmony]

But I wanted you to know that my conversion was between myself and God. And, I will follow the Prophet, but only if God confirms that his (The Prophets) counsel is true and correct. I have direct access to God at all times. He is my creator and my Father. And I refuse to let any man come between me and my Maker! That's real talk man....fo sho!


Big UP!

Lamanite

Then you and I are on the same page. I've been testifying of this same thing for years.

[_Lamanite]

But I wanted you to know that my conversion was between myself and God. And, I will follow the Prophet, but only if God confirms that his (The Prophets) counsel is true and correct. I have direct access to God at all times. He is my creator and my Father. And I refuse to let any man come between me and my Maker! That's real talk man....fo sho!


Big UP!

Lamanite

Then you and I are on the same page. I've been testifying of this same thing for years.

Oh great....between you and Scottie you're going to ruin any credibility I have with the TBM's.

While we're being personal...I just hope you're happy. As a daughter of God you know you're entitled to peace and joy and happiness in the fullest sense of the words. Sometimes it just seems like you're a little "salty" about things.

Here's to a New Year Harmony!

Allahuh Akbar!

Lamanite

[_Scottie]

Lamanite,

Do you believe that if you were to lose faith in the LDS church that you would return to your old ways?

Personally, I believe that the change has occured in YOUR heart by YOU. The church was a great stepping stone and a source of strength to pull you out of that pit. But now that you are out and have a wonderful family, I can't see you ever going back. This, of course, is my "expert" opinion from my 20 or so conversations I've had with you on a message board...

What do you think?

[_harmony]

While we're being personal...I just hope you're happy. As a daughter of God you know you're entitled to peace and joy and happiness in the fullest sense of the words. Sometimes it just seems like you're a little "salty" about things.

Here's to a New Year Harmony!

Allahuh Akbar!

Lamanite

I admit to being salty. More like... a savory, salt of the earth type. I am not a warm and fuzzy, peace and harmony type of person. I am certainly not everyone's cup of tea. When I was younger, I was a fireball, a crusader. I was the underdog's champion, sure of the truth of my convictions. Then the danged dog bit me and all hell broke loose. Now, I've mellowed considerably, but I still retain the option to pump up the ol' engine and fire away, when the dog bites again and the mood strikes me. I've found a way to coexist with a TBM husband, and maintain both my sanity and integrity. It works for me (I sometimes refer to myself as a faithful heretic)... and annoys Daniel and a few others here no end.

For right now, my biggest concerns are that I have a son being deployed in March, hoping that we've managed to shore up his very emotionally fragile wife, and the fact that my feet are in danger. Tests are proceeding. We await 2009 with trepidation.

Happy New Year to you, Lamanite. 2009 for me will be one of uneasy waiting, while trying to keep on task. I manage a team of 4 fundraisers; we're tasked with $1.6 million to be raised prior to Sept 1. My own goal is over half a million. I cannot afford to be distracted.

[_Lamanite]

Lamanite,

Do you believe that if you were to lose faith in the LDS church that you would return to your old ways?

Personally, I believe that the change has occured in YOUR heart by YOU. The church was a great stepping stone and a source of strength to pull you out of that pit. But now that you are out and have a wonderful family, I can't see you ever going back. This, of course, is my "expert" opinion from my 20 or so conversations I've had with you on a message board...

What do you think?

A lot of non believers like yourself tend to believe that the change was something internal. And Believers give full credit to God. I reject both. I work with God. He leads; I follow.

As to your questions.

Would I return to my old ways without the Gospel? Let me share some of my crazy thoughts. When money gets tight, I think how easy it would be to flip a key (buy a kilo, chop it up, re-distribute in smaller amounts.). Easy 200k. Sometimes I want to have a cognac as a nightcap. But I know I never stop at just one, and a lot of that leads to a lot of Coke and heroin. Sometimes my desire to wield power urges me back to underworld organizations. Sometimes when people upset me, I am naturally inclined to stab them right up under the rib cage where their liver is. And in each of every one of these lunatic scenarios, it is my covenant relationship with God that keeps me in check. Trust me, society is better off with me as a Mormon.

Would I have ever made it out without God? Absolutely not. Before God I was an empty shell of a man; willing to commit all manner of atrocities for money and power. Terrible things. But there was always something that tugged and pulled at my heart. Is there more? Why am I here? Who am I? When God answered my questions it gave me perspective.

I am a Son of God, born of a noble birthright.
I am filled with Divinity and can achieve great things within a moral framework
I can love others and not be weak.

I could go on.

I could never have made it out of gang life without God.
And I cannot keep the life I have without working in tandem with God.

Allahuh Akbar!

Lamanite

[_Lamanite]

While we're being personal...I just hope you're happy. As a daughter of God you know you're entitled to peace and joy and happiness in the fullest sense of the words. Sometimes it just seems like you're a little "salty" about things.

Here's to a New Year Harmony!

Allahuh Akbar!

Lamanite

I admit to being salty. More like... a savory, salt of the earth type. I am not a warm and fuzzy, peace and harmony type of person. I am certainly not everyone's cup of tea. When I was younger, I was a fireball, a crusader. I was the underdog's champion, sure of the truth of my convictions. Then the danged dog bit me and all hell broke loose. Now, I've mellowed considerably, but I still retain the option to pump up the ol' engine and fire away, when the dog bites again and the mood strikes me. I've found a way to coexist with a TBM husband, and maintain both my sanity and integrity. It works for me (I sometimes refer to myself as a faithful heretic)... and annoys Daniel and a few others here no end.

For right now, my biggest concerns are that I have a son being deployed in March, hoping that we've managed to shore up his very emotionally fragile wife, and the fact that my feet are in danger. Tests are proceeding. We await 2009 with trepidation.

Happy New Year to you, Lamanite. 2009 for me will be one of uneasy waiting, while trying to keep on task. I manage a team of 4 fundraisers; we're tasked with $1.6 million to be raised prior to Sept 1. My own goal is over half a million. I cannot afford to be distracted.

Just ask FAIR, they're rich! . DCP should be able to take care of 500k with the correct gesture.

Sorry, couldn't resist. LOL

I can't begin to fathom what it would be like to send a son to War. I'll put his name in the Temple on Friday if you don't mind. Also what's wrong with your feet. Are you diabetic? I can put both of you're name on the prayer rolls till March. They stay on for about two weeks I think. Just PM your names. Or I'll put Harmony and Harmony's son...I'm sure God can sort it out.

God bless you. I mean that. I hope peace overcomes the worries that exist.

Big UP!

Lamanite