Further Proof there is No God

[_JohnStuartMill]

The point is that God doesn't have to allow (or create) dementia in order to preserve agency. He obviously did, though, so the standard argument from evil applies quite well.

Is preservation of agency the only possible justification for the existence of evil or suffering?

No, but it's by far the most common one. The onus is now on apologists to come up with another justification.

[Analytics]

No, but it's by far the most common one. The onus is now on apologists to come up with another justification.

Why on us? The proof (or rather argument) against God using the problem of evil isn't a usual case of burden of proof. The argument follows the basic ideas in a mathematical proof which might show, for example, that there are no cases of three consecutive integers all of which are prime. The PoE argument in essence seeks to prove that a certain sort of God cannot exist given the current state of the universe.

I claim, therefore that the onus is on proponents of this particular proof to demonstrate its soundness just as would be needed in a mathematical proof. If you want to play with the burden of proof then you don't need, indeed shouldn't use, the problem of evil. All you need to do is ask me to give good reasons to believe in God and reject them all as being insufficient. Simple. Boring.

I'm feeling generous today, so I'll give a possible reason, not that it's my duty to disprove that proof. One possible reason is that it lets mankind to work together to solve some of these issues as we have with other medical difficulties. Even now we are trying to make great strides against dementia, alzheimer's, and post-traumatic stress syndrome. Having us work together instead of solving all our problems for us gives us the opportunity to learn compassion, cooperation, and other such noble qualities. Maybe other reasons exist. I don't even claim that the possibility I offered is the right one.


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[_John Larsen]

The point is that God doesn't have to allow (or create) dementia in order to preserve agency. He obviously did, though, so the standard argument from evil applies quite well.

Is preservation of agency the only possible justification for the existence of evil or suffering?

Actually, I think Mormonism's response is more interesting in nuanced. In Mormonism, evil exists because evil has always existed, and God is powerless, ultimately, to overcome it. In the short run, and in each eternal generation's span, evil can be conquered, but both ultimate evil and ultimate good transcend God. God is only good because he recognizes good, and the devil is only evil because he choose to be so.

God thus has an excuse, it is a preexisting condition and one that his policy doesn't have to cover.

[_The Nehor]

No, but it's by far the most common one. The onus is now on apologists to come up with another justification.

God finds dementia funny. Problem solved, glad I could help.

[_The Nehor]

What monolithic heights of omniscience you must have reached to be able to say that with surety.

Which part do you doubt: that God created (or, at best, allowed) dementia, or that dementia isn't necessary to preserve agency? Neither of these are particularly controversial, although I understand that their implications are probably uncomfortable for you, in which case I don't know what to say.

Not uncomfortable at all. You're annoying (like dementia) and God created you though I don't think you're necessary to preserve agency. Therefore, logically God should destroy you. Luckily in his mercy he lets us suffer and I get to laugh at people on this board. Praise God.

[_John Larsen]

No, but it's by far the most common one. The onus is now on apologists to come up with another justification.

God finds dementia funny. Problem solved, glad I could help.

It is typical. God finds it funny, believers will call such people possessed and shun them and it is left to those who systematically ignore God to solve all of the problems. Virtually all of human progress has come about via ignoring God.

[_The Nehor]

God finds dementia funny. Problem solved, glad I could help.

It is typical. God finds it funny, believers will call such people possessed and shun them and it is left to those who systematically ignore God to solve all of the problems. Virtually all of human progress has come about via ignoring God.

We're progressing?

[_marg]

From the article :

It seems, Grodin said, that meditation may reduce the brain's ability to inhibit unpleasant thoughts and memories and instead unleashes them. He has seen a similar process in aging Holocaust survivors, he said: As they begin to suffer from dementia, their brains become less able to inhibit bad memories, and they sometimes believe they are back in concentration camps.

I don't think it's necessarily the brain inhibiting bad memories but rather with dementia people typically lose short term memory and it may seem long term memory has improved. My mom often times couldn't remember the previous hour, the previous day but could recite poems she knew from childhood. And I've heard other have similarly experiences with their older parents who suffer from dementia.

[_Roger Morrison]

Further to my above:

"God" is a moniker, a nick-name--as are Eloihim, (sp?) Jehovah & any other name--attempting to personify/label/identify the life-force that keeps life alive (for its alotted time) and the Universe in action. As human knowledge of the "life-force" increases, and our ability to apply our findingings, so will the quality of human life increase to the benefit of the Earth we share with all life...

That power, by whatever moniker, is undeniable. Ignorance and its allies, superstitions and prejudices, that shroud the exercise of knowledge are what keeps humanity waring in the dark.

Thankfully some, through the ages, have reached through the shroud/veil to bring us to the point of our scientific knowledge and benefit. Now we need the courage to address the humanistic social issues that religion's misunderstanding of "God" have enabled i.e. human suffering and abuses.

Ironically this malpractice was castigated by the so-called "Son of God" centuries ago... Conclusion: Ecclesiastics, Theologians and their like have not benefitted humanity as have those who reveal the truths of natural & human sciences...

Thanks for reading. Roger
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I deny it until proved otherwise. Assertions aren't proofs.

Some "assertions" might not be "proofs". However, when science establishes a working/workable theory many bet their lives that such has been proven sufficient to take whatever as reliable.

Religionist, generally speaking, OTOH place unfathonable faith in superstitions--blood atonement, for one--and "bet their lives" on the unprovable.

I think the OP and its title "...Proof there is no God" opens discussion beyond old-age diseases and their supposed connection to "good-&-evil"... There IS no "God" of mercy or love as promolgated by biblical assertions.

However, there IS a force of life that cannot be manipulated, call it what you will. When one abides natural laws quality of life tends to be improved. And you don't even have to believe in "God"--the messanger--to be benefitted by the message...

"Proof there is No God."??? How about "proof" there is a Biblical-God???
Roger
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[_antishock8]

However, there IS a force of life that cannot be manipulated, call it what you will.

We manipulate life and death all the time. I'm not sure what you're asserting when you say there's a "life force" or "god-is-a-moniker-for-life-force".

Why can't the Universe just be, as far we can know, what is observed? Natural law and natural affairs don't seem to have any regard for creating and destroying anything and everything. There's no more a "life force" behind it all, that I can see, than there is a god. The only concession I'll give anyone on this matter is we humans exist at a certain temporal time and space which limits us to seeing the universe through that kind of constraint. We cannot possibly know anything outside of our existential state. That's a sad fact of our biological reality.

Now. If a "life force" or "god" exists in an all-encompassing time and space reality then it follows we'd be as aware of it as DNA sequencer would be aware that it lives inside a human being, flower, or fish.