The Turncoats

[_harmony]

But the LDS church prevailed.

Actually, the historical record doesn't agree with you. The gentiles prevailed... the church ran. And after they ran, the government prevailed.

[_Runtu]

Speaking of a.r.m., one of its founders is a frequent poster on RfM.

Who's that?

He posts as "Tyson Dunn," but that's just a nickname (you know, that whole cowardly anonymity thing).

[_why me]

But the LDS church prevailed.

Actually, the historical record doesn't agree with you. The gentiles prevailed... the church ran. And after they ran, the government prevailed.

And the church prevailed and survived. There will be more turncoats in the future. It has to happen. The whole idea behind faith is doubt and at this moment, certain critics are working overtime to cast doubt around like dog poop. It will have its effect on people. But such was the case from the first moment that the LDS church was organized through the media and through mouth, only now the internet is being used.

But I still have to question the reason behind the critics actions. Now of course, if conclusive proof is provided that the LDS church is false, well that is one thing...but so far that hasn't happened. But casting doubt is easy in this day an age.

I would make a wonderful critic...I would just keep throwing word 'bombs' out...some will land on fertile ground.

[_harmony]

And the church prevailed and survived. .

You consider being thrown out of Nauvoo in the middle of the winter "prevailing"? You consider being forced to change a fundamental part of the church "prevailing"? You consider caving in on blacks and the priesthood "prevailing"?

The church we have today is nothing like the original church, simply because they did not prevail. They caved in over and over, changing repeatedly in order to survive. Only the name remains the same.

[_Droopy]

And the church prevailed and survived. .

You consider being thrown out of Nauvoo in the middle of the winter "prevailing"? You consider being forced to change a fundamental part of the church "prevailing"? You consider caving in on blacks and the priesthood "prevailing"?

The church we have today is nothing like the original church, simply because they did not prevail. They caved in over and over, changing repeatedly in order to survive. Only the name remains the same.

Desperate and sad intellectual and spiritual deterioration.

Harmony is no longer a wolf in sheep's clothing, but simply a slavering wolf howling for the destruction of anything and everything that smacks of righteousness, goodness, or of the Spirit.

Stalking the flock with malignant intent, infused and permeated by her own neurotic obsessions and stalked by her own personal psychological and emotional demons, for which Mormons must account.

We all know, Harmony, that the Church is just the whipping post for your own failure to deal in a mature and healthy manner with life issues that you have allowed to canker and rot your soul and for which you have found it easier to reframe and deflect toward the Church than to take responsibility for.

You may be able to fool some here, but not all.

Believe me.

[_Kishkumen]

We all know, Harmony, that the Church is just the whipping post for your own failure to deal in a mature and healthy manner with life issues that you have allowed to canker and rot your soul and for which you have found it easier to reframe and deflect toward the Church than to take responsibility for.

You may be able to fool some here, but not all.

Believe me.

Yes, then there is the poor soul who, failing to meet the most basic requirements for respectable church participation, blathers on in pseudo-righteous indignation about the faults of other church members in compensation for the festering sores on his own feeble soul. Meet Drippy.

[_harmony]

Desperate and sad intellectual and spiritual deterioration.

Harmony is no longer a wolf in sheep's clothing, but simply a slavering wolf howling for the destruction of anything and everything that smacks of righteousness, goodness, or of the Spirit.

Stalking the flock with malignant intent, infused and permeated by her own neurotic obsessions and stalked by her own personal psychological and emotional demons, for which Mormons must account.

We all know, Harmony, that the Church is just the whipping post for your own failure to deal in a mature and healthy manner with life issues that you have allowed to canker and rot your soul and for which you have found it easier to reframe and deflect toward the Church than to take responsibility for.

You may be able to fool some here, but not all.

Believe me.

Tell it to someone who cares what you think, Droop.

And address my post... unless, of course, you can't.

[_Kishkumen]

And address my post... unless, of course, you can't.

Oh he can. He just can't do it very well.

[_Droopy]

Desperate and sad intellectual and spiritual deterioration.

Harmony is no longer a wolf in sheep's clothing, but simply a slavering wolf howling for the destruction of anything and everything that smacks of righteousness, goodness, or of the Spirit.

Stalking the flock with malignant intent, infused and permeated by her own neurotic obsessions and stalked by her own personal psychological and emotional demons, for which Mormons must account.

We all know, Harmony, that the Church is just the whipping post for your own failure to deal in a mature and healthy manner with life issues that you have allowed to canker and rot your soul and for which you have found it easier to reframe and deflect toward the Church than to take responsibility for.

You may be able to fool some here, but not all.

Believe me.

Tell it to someone who cares what you think, Droop.

And address my post... unless, of course, you can't.

I prefer to address substantive arguments, Harmony, not tantrums dressed up as arguments. You're understanding of both LDS doctrine and history is so essentially close to zero that discourse with you is virtually impossible, as Whyme has just discovered.

We all know that you desire the Church of Jesus Christ to be the Church of Harmony. It is not going to happen, and it would be well for you, psychologically and emotionally, before the final internal collapse befalls you, to be clear on that point.

Whyme said what needed to be said. The Church survived its 19th century persecution and is today one of the fastest growing religions in the world. It has been for some time. It has grown, spread, and prospered, just as Joseph and BY said it would.

Stomp the floor and pull your hair Harmony, it will change absolutely and utterly nothing.

[_Jason Bourne]

Whyme said what needed to be said. The Church survived its 19th century persecution and is today one of the fastest growing religions in the world. It has been for some time. It has grown, spread, and prospered, just as Joseph and BY said it would.

Stomp the floor and pull your hair Harmony, it will change absolutely and utterly nothing.

The Church did survive but it really has jettisoned a number of seemingly important things along the way and those not without a fight. Of course polygamy is at the top of that list. And had the Church not jettisoned that practice it most likely would not have survived. Other uncomfortable teachings and ideas from the 19th century seem to have been left behind or at least down played significantly. As the Church entered into the 20th century it over the next 50 years it cast off its more parochial approach to gathering and entrenching to becoming an international organization. Of course another major change was the priesthood ban. I do not believe that was done under pressure however. But it had to change for the Church to grow in places where it is now growing rapidly. As for one of the fastest growing religions, I am not sure that is accurate at least for the past 15 years or more. Growth has slowed. In the US we barely keep up with population growth. Church wide we grow about 1.8% per year. Islam is growing much faster by birth rate alone. Other Evangelical groups seem to be growing faster world wide as well. We also have a dismal retention rate. It also seems and this by observation only, that LDS birth rates at least in the USA may be slowing some.