Why me's "Smith was Human" excuse..

[_Ray A]

And Ray do you remember the good ol' days when you were more balanced in your opinion of Mormonism. Your sig line used to be the quotation of Joseph Smith where he claims that he is not righteous. Have you forgotton?

I have not "forgotton". But unike you, my critical faculties continue to function.

You do nothing to persuade me to look at Mormonism positively, and if I had known how shallow your thinking is..........

[_Paracelsus]

And regardless of any earthly imperfections that he may have, repentance is a wonderful antidote to imperfection.

How does one repent of taking another man's wife?

With taking the next one. The limit is the starry sky.

For the true prophet, there is no limit.

[_solomarineris]

I don't believe Smith could even qualify for a recommend to his own temple - let alone, pass the standard baptism interview in the church he conjured.


I think you are dead wrong. Church is full of his narcissistic types. They get away with elephant size sins, they have skills to keep them under wraps (especially men).
But this is not unique to LDS church only though.

[_Inconceivable]

I don't believe Smith could even qualify for a recommend to his own temple - let alone, pass the standard baptism interview in the church he conjured.


I think you are dead wrong. Church is full of his narcissistic types. They get away with elephant size sins, they have skills to keep them under wraps (especially men).
But this is not unique to LDS church only though.

Solo,

I lied once in a bishop's interview. He asked me if I had faith in Jesus Christ. As I was answering, "yes", my mind was screaming, "hey inc, you have no idea what that is, do you?" (and yes, I had no freaking idea).

Fortunately for my soul, I was baptised the next day and that one went down the drain as a freebie.

I was 8 years old.

Since then, I was committed to be truthful to the judge in Israel. You're speaking of those that an honest God thrusts down to hell. Not everyone lies. And if everyone did, it doesn't make it right.

The notion that there are 3 billion Chinese that believe in Communism doesn't make the philosophy any more correct, does it?

[_truth dancer]

OK, so Joseph Smith was a human male and made mistakes. Fine. Let's go with this.

The question is, when is one entitled to receive revelation from God?

Further, is there any behavior that disqualifies one from receiving inspiration from the HG? Is one worthy to receive divine direction if they are behaving in despicable ways. Is the "priesthood power" independent of behavior or worthiness? Does ones actions even matter when it comes to being a witness for God? Are there any behaviors that restrict ones ability to commune with God? Might there be some minimal decency needed for God to trust a mere human?

The problem as I see it is that the LDS church teaches (at least in my experience) that one must be worthy to receive the companionship of the HG, or for men to use their priesthood power. It teaches that it is through obedience that one qualifies for the blessings of God.

So, when I hear the "Joseph Smith was just a human" excuse, I'm reminded of Harmony's view, that Joseph Smith disqualified himself from prophethood when he had his affair with sixteen year old Fanny.

~td~

[_solomarineris]

Since then, I was committed to be truthful to the judge in Israel. You're speaking of those that an honest God thrusts down to hell. Not everyone lies. And if everyone did, it doesn't make it right.

Well, you are definitely not going to get a pat in the back just because you follow somebody Else's principles for a guide in your life. I have my very own sets of rules. I do not believe for a second anybody will be thrusted to hell just because they screw their neighbor's, wife, shortchange their employers, steal, cheat, covet, whatever. For me the moral standards were taught by my parents, good friends, teachers, etc.,

The notion that there are 3 billion Chinese that believe in Communism doesn't make the philosophy any more correct, does it?
I don't think you want to discuss communism here, the principles of Marx are viable alternative to capitalism we practice today.

[_Inconceivable]

The question is, when is one entitled to receive revelation from God?
~td~

TD,

WhyMe will not answer even one of your questions honestly. He can't - just as the pharasees, on occasion, refused to answer Jesus' questions - damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

Smith was an immoral man that stole other mens wives and banged the daughters of trusting converts. He humiliated his wife and children for the dispicable behavior he engaged in.

If the Mormon God actually coerced him to engage in illegal, immoral, anticivil acts, then the Mormon God's moral compass is spinning as well. What's it going to be?

Smith was not entitled to the constant companionship of the Mormon Holy Ghost no different than any other priesthood holder that even entertains an immoral thought (if the Mormon facade were actually true). Ever. It is simply not doctrinally possible.

If Smith's behavior is to be identified as "human", I'd suggest that WhyMe's ability to identify the virtues of morality suspect as well.

The fruit doesn't fall far from the tree, WhyMe. Can you be trusted?

[_Inconceivable]

Not everyone lies. And if everyone did, it doesn't make it right.

.. I have my very own sets of rules..

Solo,

This isn't the first time I've had difficulty comprehending your posts. Dude, when you catch someone lying to you, they deservedly lose your trust. This is common ground for us, right?

I've been taught that in order to be truly trusted, I must not lie. Some people read this as don't get caught. I don't. Hell or no hell, it's simply a philosophy of civilized kindness.

If a pat on the back demonstrates our trust in another, we ought to be careful who we acknowledge.

Now, if you want to discuss Communism, let's start another thread and Ludwig and I will be glad to take you to school.

[_why me]

You do nothing to persuade me to look at Mormonism positively, and if I had known how shallow your thinking is..........

I am not trying to persuade anyone. And I don't think that my thinking is shallow. Joseph was human. He would be the first to admit it. And he believed polygamy came from god. Their was a reason that he was sealed to so many women during a two year period and being a horny toad was not one of them.

But in the end, he did make mistakes but he certainly accomplished much in his short life. And if the mobs would have left the LDS alone, he would accomplished much more. But in the end, he was a human being.

[_why me]

OK, so Joseph Smith was a human male and made mistakes. Fine. Let's go with this.

The question is, when is one entitled to receive revelation from God?

~td~

Maybe you need to ask god. He may give you an answer. I think that we are all entitled to receive revelation regardless of our imperfections as long as we recognize those imperfections and attempt to change. God is patient.