Joseph Smith's ability to memorize lengthy sections of text

[_Uncle Dale]

Uncle Dale, was the line upon line method used for working and reworking each line till it sounded correct?

Perhaps -- but I do not believe there were any reliable witnesses,
as to what dictation made it into the Book of Mormon and what dictation did not.

Smith said very little about such things, and I do not trust Cowdery.

Most of what made it into the Book of Mormon was probably written down when
the two of these fellows were alone and unobserved by others.

UD

[_moksha]

We also have Whitmer's statement that what Joseph Smith saw in the U&T resembled an inscription on a piece of parchment. Perhaps this is because Joseph actually had such pieces of parchment in his hat.

------------------------

Thanks Uncle Dale.

[_Uncle Dale]

...see Leigh Eric Schmidt
....

An excerpt:

The example of a preacher for the Disciples of Christ, Jesse Jasper Moss, in his confrontation with Mormons in Ohio in the 1830s, is especially revealing. Mormon claims of prophecy and miracle left Moss in spasms of incredulity, and he sought through Enlightenment forms of natural magic to unmask Mormon supernaturalism as a pious fraud. "About this time a new supply of preachers came on from New York," Moss related, "with some of the witnesses to the Book of Mormon, among them Parley Pratt and Martin Harris. Soon afterwards they began to have visitations of angels among them. I was suspicious of these angels from the first." In stating "publicly my suspicions," Moss made a telling move--that is, he performed them. "I said I had studied the black arts, or necromancy, and knew just how their angels were made, and showed how it could be done." In another crowning moment of encounter, one of Moss's colleagues, "who was something of a ventriloquist," disrupted an outdoor Mormon meeting by imitating "the screams of a panther," scattering the group in terror, some of whom then interpreted the strange sounds (with traditional piety) as an encounter with the devil. "No wonder the Mormons hated us," was Moss's laconic conclusion after all these harassments. As knowledge of "enlightened" magic became more widespread, it proved usable by skeptics and evangelicals alike.
(Jesse Jasper Moss, "Autobiography," typescript, The Disciples of Christ Historical Society, Nashville. I am indebted to Elizabeth Kronzek for bringing this memoir to my attention.)

See also:

http://www.solomonspalding.com/docs/Wil1878a.htm#Moss
http://www.solomonspalding.com/docs/Wil1878a.htm#1938
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/NY ... htm#060635

UD

[_Mike Reed]

...see Leigh Eric Schmidt
....

An excerpt:

The example of a preacher for the Disciples of Christ, Jesse Jasper Moss, in his confrontation with Mormons in Ohio in the 1830s, is especially revealing. Mormon claims of prophecy and miracle left Moss in spasms of incredulity, and he sought through Enlightenment forms of natural magic to unmask Mormon supernaturalism as a pious fraud. "About this time a new supply of preachers came on from New York," Moss related, "with some of the witnesses to the Book of Mormon, among them Parley Pratt and Martin Harris. Soon afterwards they began to have visitations of angels among them. I was suspicious of these angels from the first." In stating "publicly my suspicions," Moss made a telling move--that is, he performed them. "I said I had studied the black arts, or necromancy, and knew just how their angels were made, and showed how it could be done." In another crowning moment of encounter, one of Moss's colleagues, "who was something of a ventriloquist," disrupted an outdoor Mormon meeting by imitating "the screams of a panther," scattering the group in terror, some of whom then interpreted the strange sounds (with traditional piety) as an encounter with the devil. "No wonder the Mormons hated us," was Moss's laconic conclusion after all these harassments. As knowledge of "enlightened" magic became more widespread, it proved usable by skeptics and evangelicals alike.
(Jesse Jasper Moss, "Autobiography," typescript, The Disciples of Christ Historical Society, Nashville. I am indebted to Elizabeth Kronzek for bringing this memoir to my attention.)

See also:

http://www.solomonspalding.com/docs/Wil1878a.htm#Moss
http://www.solomonspalding.com/docs/Wil1878a.htm#1938
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/NY ... htm#060635

UD

I guess you've already read it. ;) Thanks for the links, Dale.

[_Mary]

Why me, memory and intelligence don't necessarily go together. Autism can reveal itself in the ability to memorise whole books for instance, in children, but without the understanding that goes along with it. In honesty, I would say that my son is no more intelligent than you or I!, but his memory really is astounding, and sets him apart from just about everyone, and I do mean everyone of his own age group and much older.

Now I'm not arguing that Joseph Smith was autistic by any stretch of the imagination, but I really don't think it is far fetched to see that at the very least, others believed him to have a good memory, as already evidenced in this thread and that if he did so, it wouldn't necessarily mean that he was some kind of Einstein or an expert in grammer, which he obviously wasn't.

If that memory was particularly good, added to some of the other qualities that Joseph was supposed to possess that seemed other worldly, such as the literal ability to see a needle in a haystack almost, then it might account for why Joseph came to be revered as slightly more than the average human. If you add to that his scuffling abilities, his general down to earthness and lack of pomposity (which I think Brigham mentions when talking to his sons on their arrival in Salt Lake), then you have a pretty extraordinary character.

We already know from Ingersoll's account in the Hurlburt affidavits that Joseph's father was not above using 'props' in order to persuade people that what he was doing was magic or supernatural. Joseph had plenty of opportunity for training.

Of course none of this proves anything, but I think the hints and evidences are there for pretty much everything that Dale speculates on, otherwise he probably wouldn't be speculating on it.

[_Mary]

Here's another one that impressed me with regard to Joseph's memory and his story telling capabilities..

In the course of our evening conversations Joseph would give us some of the most amusing recitals which could be imagined he would describe the ancient inhabitants of this continent, their dress, their manner of traveling, the animals which they rode, the cities that were built by them, the structure of their buildings, with every particular of their mode of warfare, their religious worship as particularly as though he had spent his life with them. It will be recollected by the reader that all that I mentioned and much more took place within the compass of one short year. (EMD, vol. 1, p. 296)

(Taken from Lucy Mack Smith's history)

[_Pokatator]

Too bad that he wasted his talent on the Book of Mormon and organizing a religion that would eventually kill him and bring pain to his wife and family.

You might want to get your facts straight, why me. It wasn't his organizing a religion that got him killed; it was a combination of things, including his lies, his women, and his ego. And if he'd been following his own rules, he'd have lived a long life under the protection of heaven.

Also, Joseph stepped on the toes of local Masons by offering a new and true Mason Lodge, as per Uncle Dales contribution to this thread......

One wonders just how far up the Masonic ladder of initiations Joseph Smith (and/or his close family members) had progressed during the 1820s. At that time New York "blue lodge" freemasonry was split between the "city lodge" and the schismatic "country lodge," with each side calling the other "apostate." The commotion of the William Morgan affair did much to help heal the rift, but in the meanwhile, some lodges were going off in their own direction, seeking means and methods whereby they could be the "pure, original Masonry" of Father Adam's times.

[_Daniel Peterson]

...Thrown in a few instances where he memorized lengthy passages,
and add a little extra imagination from his followers and maybe a magic prop,
and I think we'd have the miracle explained.
...

A little belladonna slipped into your drink, and the pupils of your eyes open
up so wide that ordinary daylight is brighter than the sun --- and especially
so, if your eyes have been closed for half an hour "in prayer" while waiting
for the surreptitiously administered drug to take effect.

A megaphone, used by an accomplice hidden in the bushes could have a
truly wonderful effect, upon a person dosed up with "deadly nightshade."

A few worn-out copper engraving plates, cut to size and spiffed up with
brass polish would be convincing "gold" to a guy (unknowingly) on jimsonweed .

A pair of joined magnifying glasses, with handles removed, would look
mighty strange to an uninformed person under the effects of mushrooms.

A sword, a discarded lake steamer's compass, and some phosphorus
judiciously applied to objects in the shade of trees would be dazzling.

Add an immaculate white robe, table cloth, folding table, and a practiced
deep, preacher's voice emulating God Almighty -- and you might be able
to fool old Tom Paine himself.

Oh my. This is good stuff. Thank you! Thank you!

I hope you don't mind my citing it in something I'm writing.

[_Uncle Dale]

...
I hope you don't mind my citing it in something I'm writing
...

Somebody has given you my parole officer's address?
Sure, go ahead -- but not a word of this to my psychiatrist.

Scout's honor?

UD

[_DarkHelmet]

According to William Clayton, the memorization abilities of Joseph Smith were so good,
that he knew all of the contents of the lengthy LDS D&C sec. 132 "perfectly" --

LOL. I'm sure he did. Wasn't it just a really long pick-up line?