Why LDS Mormons are not Christian.

[_Gadianton Plumber]

I would define Christian as someone who accepts Jesus Christ as their personal savior.

Elaborate on this. Is the Potato Head religion Christian too?

[_beastie]

Elaborate on this. Is the Potato Head religion Christian too?

Why do I have to elaborate? Do members of the PHR accept Jesus as the Savior?

Do you really think we should accept a definition that results in Catholicism being labeled "not christian"?????

Catholicism is the ROOT of all other Christian religions. How can ANY religion be Christian if the ROOT is not Christian????

[_Gadianton Plumber]

Elaborate on this. Is the Potato Head religion Christian too?

Why do I have to elaborate? Do members of the PHR accept Jesus as the Savior?

Do you really think we should accept a definition that results in Catholicism being labeled "not christian"?????

Catholicism is the ROOT of all other Christian religions. How can ANY religion be Christian if the ROOT is not Christian????

Because it was the first to pervert it. That's all. Is the fact that Catholicism is mainstream make is Christian? Then by that logic, anything that isn't mainstream is not Christian, right?

[_Jersey Girl]

Still working and still thinking about which alter to use for what side of the argument. I want to take both sides. ;-)

GP when you say that in Christianity, God is eternal and not eternal in Mormonism, you need to be careful with your terms.

I'd call the Christian god (just bear with me folks, don't throw a hissy) "self existent" and both the Christian AND Mormon god (stop the hissy before you start it) eternal.

I'll be back to mince words eventually.

[_beastie]

Because it was the first to pervert it. That's all. Is the fact that Catholicism is mainstream make is Christian? Then by that logic, anything that isn't mainstream is not Christian, right?

Are you arguing that you know enough about primitive Christianity to judge that Catholicism "perverted" it enough to render the Catholic church nonchristian?

No, your logic is not sound. I am saying that the word "Christian" means something specific in our culture, and that mainstream Christian sects are accepted to fit within that definition in our culture. Any definition that ends up excluding mainstream Christian sects has strayed from our culturally accepted definition of Christian, and hence, is not a useful definition.

How can a nonChristian faith like Catholicism spawn Christian faiths?

[_Gadianton Plumber]

Because it was the first to pervert it. That's all. Is the fact that Catholicism is mainstream make is Christian? Then by that logic, anything that isn't mainstream is not Christian, right?

Are you arguing that you know enough about primitive Christianity to judge that Catholicism "perverted" it enough to render the Catholic church nonchristian?

No, your logic is not sound. I am saying that the word "Christian" means something specific in our culture, and that mainstream Christian sects are accepted to fit within that definition in our culture. Any definition that ends up excluding mainstream Christian sects has strayed from our culturally accepted definition of Christian, and hence, is not a useful definition.

How can a nonChristian faith like Catholicism spawn Christian faiths?

I suppose my definition is of limited usefulness. However, you and anyone else has yet to offer a meaningful correction. I guess it is impossible to NOT be a Christian. Yay! Hinduism is Christian too!

[_Ray A]

"I like your Christ, but I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ" - Mahatma Gandhi.

Christians like those on CARM claiming that Mormons aren't Christian are like the Pharisees claiming that Christ wasn't a Jew. For me there really is a very simple test, regardless of what one professes, whether they are Christian or not, and that is how well they follow the teachings of the sermon on the Mount. It's not at all hard to make a judgment from observed behaviour.

I can claim to be a professor of mathematics, or physics, but not even an official certificate can prove that. The proof is in the pudding. Dying for one's belief doesn't prove anything either. Koresh went down in a wall of flames and polygamy eventually came back to bite Joseph Smith in the ass.

[_beastie]

I suppose my definition is of limited usefulness. However, you and anyone else has yet to offer a meaningful correction. I guess it is impossible to NOT be a Christian. Yay! Hinduism is Christian too!

What are you talking about? I did provide a meaningful correction. In our culture, the word "Christian" means something specific - it means someone who accepts Jesus Christ as their savior. This definition is specific enough that it does exclude groups that aren't Christian, like Hindus. I suspect you reject my correction because it obviously would include Mormonism.

It isn't useful to have discussions that disregard culturally accepted meanings of words. I could claim I believe in "God" and then claim "but my definition of God is the cat laying on my bed". Meaningful discussions have to take place within the context of culturally accepted meanings of words. You constructed what is - by your own admission - an "arbitrary" definition of the word Christian. That definition was obviously constructed in order to eliminate Mormonism. The problem is it also eliminates other faiths that our culture accepts as "Christian".

[_Gadianton Plumber]

I suppose my definition is of limited usefulness. However, you and anyone else has yet to offer a meaningful correction. I guess it is impossible to NOT be a Christian. Yay! Hinduism is Christian too!

What are you talking about? I did provide a meaningful correction. In our culture, the word "Christian" means something specific - it means someone who accepts Jesus Christ as their savior. This definition is specific enough that it does exclude groups that aren't Christian, like Hindus. I suspect you reject my correction because it obviously would include Mormonism.

It isn't useful to have discussions that disregard culturally accepted meanings of words. I could claim I believe in "God" and then claim "but my definition of God is the cat laying on my bed". Meaningful discussions have to take place within the context of culturally accepted meanings of words. You constructed what is - by your own admission - an "arbitrary" definition of the word Christian. That definition was obviously constructed in order to eliminate Mormonism. The problem is it also eliminates other faiths that our culture accepts as "Christian".

Then, according to culturally accepted definition of Christian, Mormons are NOT Christian, as the vast majority of non-LDS reject their ridiculous claims. Right?

[_beastie]

Then, according to culturally accepted definition of Christian, Mormons are NOT Christian, as the vast majority of non-LDS reject their ridiculous claims. Right?

No, because the one claim that non-LDS do not reject is "Jesus Christ is my Savior". That is the basis of defining "Christian".