Reexamining personal revelation

[_Jason Bourne]

This is what I don't get. Whenever I read LDS comments on boards that have to do with personal revelation or the Holy Spirit (Ghost) they always talk about joy, warmth and that sort of thing.

Does the Spirit never move on LDS in the form of "drop you to your knees" guilt and remorse?

That is to say, instead of warm feelings don't you guys ever feel like you just got a good smack across the face?

Maybe it's just me...

;-)

Certainly the idea of being moved upon and convicted of by guilt of your sin is part of Mormonism. It is all through the Book of Mormon. Read the account of Alma the Younger and the Sons of Mosiah's conversion. Read about how one must have a broken heart and contrite spirit to truly be born of God.

[_Runtu]

This is what keeps me believing, or at least wanting to believe, in God. I've had experiences that I could probably reason away, but I don't really want to. Some things I have experienced lead me to believe that there is a God who cares about me, even if it's just a little.

Is that a naïve hope? Maybe, but I'm not willing to give it up.

[_Redefined]

This is what keeps me believing, or at least wanting to believe, in God. I've had experiences that I could probably reason away, but I don't really want to. Some things I have experienced lead me to believe that there is a God who cares about me, even if it's just a little.

Is that a naïve hope? Maybe, but I'm not willing to give it up.

I was thinking about this just this last week. In the process of trying to get a job (nothing fancy, just retail), I'm getting rejected left and right because of applicant to job ratio especially due to the bad economy. Anyway, I was realizing why it might be beneficial for some people to hold a hope in a "God" that has a purpose for us. Armed with that belief, it can give one hope that everything is happening for a reason, and the rejection is just "God's" sign that this job wasn't the place you were supposed to be to find your life opportunities.

[_Runtu]

I was thinking about this just this last week. In the process of trying to get a job (nothing fancy, just retail), I'm getting rejected left and right because of applicant to job ratio especially due to the bad economy. Anyway, I was realizing why it might be beneficial for some people to hold a hope in a "God" that has a purpose for us. Armed with that belief, it can give one hope that everything is happening for a reason, and the rejection is just "God's" sign that this job wasn't the place you were supposed to be to find your life opportunities.

Well, that's not what i was getting at. I learned a long time ago that things happen, that there isn't always a cosmic significance to anything. My brothers were killed by a careless truck driver, not because there was a reason. Anyway, as I said, it's just that I've had experiences that I choose to believe are from something or someone else. My brain says that's a foolish notion, but then I'm a pretty foolish person, so it's completely in character.

[_John D the First]

What keeps me in Mormonism are roughly two things:

1). My experience of personal revelation is qualitatively distinct from any other experience I have and makes me a better person than I would be otherwise. It is a sui generis anchor of conviction and motivation that is humbling because it is extremely convincing to me, but not all convincing to anyone else I even try to describe it to. Unlike Zeezrom, I don't experience it in other contexts.

2). The problems with Mormonism just aren't compelling to me. They depend on assumptions that I don't find convincing. If I had to hold onto my spiritual experiences while denying a reality that stares me in the face, okay, that would be hard. But it's just not the case as I see it.

[_Redefined]

I'm the same way. . . and I too feel the "I should know better" sometimes. My comment was to express that I think I do it because it is easier to "hope" that there is something greater going on rather than to let the rejection take over and send me into a depression. In other words, I'd rather think God was behind it, rather then that I'm just a big loser that can't get a simple retail job! It was "God's" hand!

[_Runtu]

If I had to hold onto my spiritual experiences while denying a reality that stares me in the face, okay, that would be hard. But it's just not the case as I see it.

That's exactly where I'm coming from. On the one hand I have my spiritual experiences, and on the other the reality that some of the church's truth claims are demonstrably not true.

So, what does one do in that situation?

[_Themis]

That's exactly where I'm coming from. On the one hand I have my spiritual experiences, and on the other the reality that some of the church's truth claims are demonstrably not true.

So, what does one do in that situation?

I had my spiritual experiences as well, but it was not until I realized that they were not as reliable as I would have liked did I realize that I could be wrong. Then when I looked at the evidence, it was from a less biased POV. When you see that the evidence is very much against what I wanted to believe, I had to again look at how reliable my spiritual experiences really are. I still use and value those experiences and the new ones as well. I just don't put to much trust in my interpretations as I used to.

John D the First

My experience of personal revelation is qualitatively distinct from any other experience I have and makes me a better person than I would be otherwise.

Some of our spiritual experiences are, But we still tend to view and interpret then based on our beliefs, religion, culture, etc. I think our body's can produce some amazing things, even though I would like to think there are other things going on as well, which I think I'm open to. My spiritual experiences also make me a better person, and I'm glad yours do as well.

[_Redefined]

I had my spiritual experiences as well, but it was not until I realized that they were not as reliable as I would have liked did I realize that I could be wrong. Then when I looked at the evidence, it was from a less biased POV. When you see that the evidence is very much against what I wanted to believe, I had to again look at how reliable my spiritual experiences really are. I still use and value those experiences and the new ones as well. I just don't put to much trust in my interpretations as I used to.

Exactly! There has to be some sort of test that the "testimony" must hold up to, otherwise it's reckless to just defer ones whole belief to "testimony". . . in the face of contradicting facts. Re-evaluation should be a constant part of the process.

[_Runtu]

I had my spiritual experiences as well, but it was not until I realized that they were not as reliable as I would have liked did I realize that I could be wrong. Then when I looked at the evidence, it was from a less biased POV. When you see that the evidence is very much against what I wanted to believe, I had to again look at how reliable my spiritual experiences really are. I still use and value those experiences and the new ones as well. I just don't put to much trust in my interpretations as I used to.

Hence the reason I haven't been an active member for 5 years. I'm still sorting things out and re-evaluating.