Did Joseph Believe Masonry was Ancient?

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_Darth J
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Re: Did Joseph Believe Masonry was Ancient?

Post by _Darth J »

Mike Reed wrote:DarthJ.
It seems as though you think the passages you quote undermine George's argument. Why do you think this?


As in my apology to George above, my sarcasm about "are you sure?" did not translate very well (my previous messages were just a failed cipher project, anyway).

I think the underlined passages make George's argument crystal clear.
_Mike Reed
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Re: Did Joseph Believe Masonry was Ancient?

Post by _Mike Reed »

Darth J wrote:
Mike Reed wrote:DarthJ.
It seems as though you think the passages you quote undermine George's argument. Why do you think this?


As in my apology to George above, my sarcasm about "are you sure?" did not translate very well (my previous messages were just a failed cipher project, anyway).

I think the underlined passages make George's argument crystal clear.

Ha! Ok. Good. Nice to know we agree.
_George Miller
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Re: Did Joseph Believe Masonry was Ancient?

Post by _George Miller »

Darth J wrote:I know you're positive; that's why I had the scripture cites. Sorry; sometimes the tone of things like what I mean by "are you sure?" (i.e., it is obvious) doesn't translate very well over the internet.

Actually I thought your humor came across just fine :-)

You may be interested that several Masonic allusions in these passages have actually not been discussed by previous commentators. For example you noted this above.

"And Satan said unto Cain: Swear unto me by thy throat, and if thou tell it thou shalt die; and swear thy brethren by their heads."

While it has been assumed that these are the same penalties, there are other options. Personally, I think this text implies that Satan was not only creating Satanic versions of the Blue Lodge degrees (the first three), but that he was also teaching a spurious form of the higher Royal Arch degree. The penalty for the highest degree in the Royal Arch was reported by Bernard as follows:

"Binding myself under no less penalty, than of having my skull smote off, and my brains exposed to the scorching rays of the sun, should I ever knowingly, or willfully, violate or transgress any part of this my solemn oath, or obligation, or a Royal Arch Mason." (Bernard, 130-131)

The presence of Royal Arch material in this context is another reason I suspect this Mormon scripture was conceived no earlier than the mid-1820s by someone well informed on the intricacies of the Royal Arch ritual.

Another point you might find of interest is a minor change in punctuation.

GEN 4:08 "And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him."
MOS 5:32 "And Cain went into the field, and Cain talked with Abel, his brother. And it came to pass that while they were in the field, Cain rose up against Abel, his brother, and slew him.

Notice how this minor punctuation change emphasizes that Abel is a brother. In other words he is not only a genetic brother, but that he is also a Masonic brother. Importantly, Master Masons promise to run to the aid of a brother Master Mason when he is in danger. Cain has apostatized from his Masonic obligation and has turned it on its head. This idea is a reflection of Joseph Smith's cultural milieu as one anti-Masonic commentator of the 1820-30s noted that Abel was "morganized" by Cain.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.
_Polygamy-Porter
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Re: Did Joseph Believe Masonry was Ancient?

Post by _Polygamy-Porter »

Polygamy-Porter wrote:I am not sure, but there was an article on the FARMS website years ago that stated the modern day temple ceremony was "PURE MASONRY" and confirmed that the temple ceremony did originate from the Masonic influences on Joseph Smith.

I cannot find the article now. Perhaps a Dannyite had it pulled?


Edit to ADD: FOUND the article. It was "TRUE Masonry" not pure.

I started a new thread about this and how a 2007 Ensign article is out of phase from the MI/FARMS article published eight years prior to the Ensign article.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14214
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_moksha
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Re: Did Joseph Believe Masonry was Ancient?

Post by _moksha »

Is it true that Masonry started with the world's first brick outhouse?
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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