Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_Dr. Shades
_Emeritus
Posts: 14117
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:07 pm

Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders

Post by _Dr. Shades »

Beastie:

I've also heard "Borderline Personality Disorder" postulated as the form of mental illness from which he suffered.

What's your take on that?
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_why me
_Emeritus
Posts: 9589
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:19 pm

Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders

Post by _why me »

Simon Belmont wrote:Oh yes, let us now speculate yet another theory for Joseph Smith.

How could Joseph Smith have produced the Book of Mormon, become a philosopher, a military leader, a social reformer, an economist, a city planner, an architect, a newspaper editor, a health advisor, an educator, an athlete, a theologian, begin what would become a world religion, and above all be a family man and a man of God.
I pester other posters about not citing their claims, so here is my citation.

So what theories can we all come up with so that we do not have to believe in this great man, and therefore can toil in our anger against a church that we feel "duped" us, but in fact did nothing but good.



As you can see simon, this part of the post was ignored by the critics. They really have no explanation for you. Sad but true. I also see him in this light. But for the critics he must have been insane even though emma never claimed such. And she lived with him. And that is most striking in regards to critics' claims about mental illness.

And then we still have the 11 witnesses being fooled by a mentally ill person with plates and visions for them to see and experience. Hard to figure that one out.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_beastie
_Emeritus
Posts: 14216
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:26 am

Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders

Post by _beastie »

Simon Belmont wrote:Oh yes, let us now speculate yet another theory for Joseph Smith.

How could Joseph Smith have produced the Book of Mormon, become a philosopher, a military leader, a social reformer, an economist, a city planner, an architect, a newspaper editor, a health advisor, an educator, an athlete, a theologian, begin what would become a world religion, and above all be a family man and a man of God.
I pester other posters about not citing their claims, so here is my citation.

So what theories can we all come up with so that we do not have to believe in this great man, and therefore can toil in our anger against a church that we feel "duped" us, but in fact did nothing but good.

"Well" says one "he was just highly intelligent, which allowed him to be a manipulative conman."
"Or" says another "he simply knew some people who were far more educated than he, and was in cahoots with then the whole time."
"Maybe" says a third "he was dabbling in magic and occult practices, and the devil helped him do all of these things to bring his church to the world."
"He could have been bi-polar" says another.
"Or a savant" proclaims yet another.

A thousand theories, yet only one fits this man, and that is Joseph Smith was who he claimed to be.


You don't know anything about bipolar, do you?

People who suffer from bipolar are often unusually creative and productive. In fact, the manic phase of the disorder leads to heightened creativity and even productivity (before they have the break down).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pe ... r_disorder
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_why me
_Emeritus
Posts: 9589
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:19 pm

Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders

Post by _why me »

Except for the fact, that people generally see something wrong in a person that is bi-polar. And at the time of Joseph Smith it may have not been known but the symptoms have been around and recognized. It would have come up for discussion. And it still doesn't explain 11 people testifying of seeing the plates and heavenly personages. What were they suffering from?

But yes, all things are possible.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_Yoda

Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders

Post by _Yoda »

As Beastie pointed out, it is obvious that you guys know nothing or next to nothing about bi-polar.

My best friend has it.

Beastie can correct me if I'm misreading her, but I don't believe that she is indicating that Joseph Smith was insane. If he did, in fact, have bi-polar, it would not negate the good things he did at all.

Simon, you, yourself, stated that Joseph Smith was a man who made mistakes. His bi-polar could account for his thinking process which caused some of those mistakes.....such as truly believing polygamy should be restored.

As Beastie pointed out, the bi-polar also contributes to Joseph Smith's creativity and abilities which he utilized to translate the Book of Mormon.

I think that Simon and WhyMe are both simply dismissing Beastie's theory because she is a critic.

Since both of you hate it when critics simply dismiss your theories and/or views because you are believers, why can't you put the mature foot forward and listen to what she has to say?
_MCB
_Emeritus
Posts: 4078
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:14 pm

Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders

Post by _MCB »

No, shades, I don't think so.

1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-injuring behavior covered in Criterion 5
2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.
3. Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.
4. Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., promiscuous sex, eating disorders, binge eating, substance abuse, reckless driving). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-injuring behavior covered in Criterion 5
5. Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, threats or self-injuring behavior such as cutting, interfering with the healing of scars (excoriation) or picking at oneself.
6. Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).
7. Chronic feelings of emptiness
8. Inappropriate anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).
9. Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation, delusions or severe dissociative symptoms

Five or more of the above. He only qualified on 4, 6, 8, and nine, that I know of. In my mind, borderline is called that because of many milder pathologies, each one of which is not intense enough to make a clear-cut diagnosis. I think beastie has the diagnosis pinned down, with my perception of underlying LD and the role of prophet to compensate, adding to the flaming, distinct, and severe pathology.
Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm
_MCB
_Emeritus
Posts: 4078
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:14 pm

Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders

Post by _MCB »

Since both of you hate it when critics simply dismiss your theories and/or views because you are believers, why can't you put the mature foot forward and listen to what she has to say?
I long ago realized that extreme TBM's will generally denigrate anything I say, or put me on "ignore". It is up to people in the middle to objectively evaluate everything and transmit it to others. :)

Although yesterday I made a comment that most of the changes in the Book of Mormon are irrelevant, and was surprised by a positive response. I guess it is impossible to turn that one into mud.
Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm
_Simon Belmont

Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders

Post by _Simon Belmont »

beastie wrote:You don't know anything about bipolar, do you?


Do not pretend to know anything about what I know or do not know about mental disability. One of my best friends suffers from rapid Bi-Polar with schizophrenic tendencies. I have been dealing with him for ten years now, moving from hospital to hospital, from homeless shelter to homeless shelter... watching him destroy his life over and over, each time a manic stage hits. It isn't his fault, but it has pained me for many years.
_AtticusFinch
_Emeritus
Posts: 392
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:48 am

Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders

Post by _AtticusFinch »

why me wrote:Except for the fact, that people generally see something wrong in a person that is bi-polar. And at the time of Joseph Smith it may have not been known but the symptoms have been around and recognized. It would have come up for discussion. And it still doesn't explain 11 people testifying of seeing the plates and heavenly personages. What were they suffering from?

But yes, all things are possible.



sigh...11 friends and family. 11 people who saw with their "spiritual eyes" 11 people who got involved in a con that they could never walk away from due to legal and criminal ramifications.
“What really goes on in the minds of Church leadership who know of the the truth. It would devastate the Church if a top leader were to announce the facts.” Thomas Ferguson, Mormon archaeologist
_Simon Belmont

Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders

Post by _Simon Belmont »

Doctor Scratch wrote:Oh, wow. Citing John "The Hatchet" Tvedtnes, of all people? And an opinion piece no less! What an embarrassment for you.


His opinion of Joseph Smith is more reputable than your opinion of him, I'm afraid, Doctor Scratch.

Simon/oxygenadam/Skywalker (who, by the way, has been totally in absentia on the aptly named MADboard ever since you began your obsessive run of posting here).


This is the second, or third time you have accused me of being someone else. Why must I be someone else for you to feel satisfied? Do you not believe that a believing member could register on this message board?
Post Reply