How The Church Can Stop Hemorrhaging Members

[_The Nehor]

Nehor,

Sadly you missed that the tripe in question was the source of the words.
Thought you'd have got that, I'll be less cryptic in future.

So you were arguing it was tripe because it came from the Book of Abraham?

Ummmm.....okay.

[_Themis]

I agree with Themis on this one. For all the hemorrhaging the church may be suffering, whatever level that is, it would be worse if the church were more honest about its history.

The church is in between a rock and a hard place, really. If they lie about things, as they have been, they only lose the ones who find out. If they tell the truth, they lose even more. All they can really hope is that the rate at which people find out the truth drops. And with the Internet, fat chance of that.

The LDS church isn't really true, and its history reflects that. The whitewashed history we were all taught by the church describes a fantasy of a true church that has never really existed. If the church were to be more open and honest in its depictions of its early days, it would just make it easier for more people to recognize the manmade nature of the church, instead of the fantasy "true church" version they've been conditioned to see.

And no doubt many here will swallow this tripe.

No doubt you believe that, but then you actually believe the church is true. You represent the small percentage of members who find out but remain believing it is literally true. I can understand and appreciate this group even if they are the best at self deception.

Seth makes another good point that even if the church had been open from the beginning that this would not help. It would have just made it plain to more people back then that it is a man-made organization.

[_Joseph]

It would go a long way in helping members if lds-inc would just figure out a way to answer the questions members have.

'that is not pertinent to your salvation'.

'asking questions is the first step to apostacy'.

'leave it alone'.

All are insulting to those who find something they have a question about and end up being told to shut up and quit bothering leaders.

It is like the kid who asks his dad 'where did I come from' - and gets the full on story of man & woman and sex and relationships - and then the dad asks 'why did you want to know?' The kids says 'tommy said he came from New Jersey and I wanted to know where I came from.

Being open and honest means you don't have to remember the lies and it is easier to keep the story straight. You don't have major leaders making up total BS like White Salamander excuses when you are honest and open. BS like this show a severe lack of intelligence and a willingness to lie to the members from lds-inc leadership.

Few members would delve into much of anything no matter what is taught. For those who would, finding that their leaders are open about what they know as well as what they do not know would be much easier to take.

Hiding the truth has the negative effect of pointing people to the big questions of 'why are you hiding this and what else are you hiding or lying about?'

[_Buffalo]

And of course by honesty you mean "teach what the Church's enemies think they should teach". That's not honesty and openness no matter how pretty of a bow you try to put on it.

How about just show a more honest picture of the church history, instead of the whitewashed version?

[_Themis]

It would go a long way in helping members if lds-inc would just figure out a way to answer the questions members have.

If they could have they would have long ago. There are no good answers so avoiding it is the best they can do until they can move to a less literal view of the church and it being the one true church.

[_The Nehor]

And of course by honesty you mean "teach what the Church's enemies think they should teach". That's not honesty and openness no matter how pretty of a bow you try to put on it.

How about just show a more honest picture of the church history, instead of the whitewashed version?

The picture we share is honest.

[_Themis]

The picture we share is honest.

I told you that you were one of the best at self deception, :)

[_jon]

The picture we share is honest.

Show an honest picture of the translation of the golden plates.
The one used in the Church depicts Oliver and Joseph sat at a table with the plates in front of both of them, Joseph is studying them and Oliver is writing down what he says.

Is that an honest picture?

[_zeezrom]

Correction:

A TBM who learns his whole life that Joseph Smith never practiced plural marriage, but merely taught that it was a true principle whenever God has required, is likely to have a personal faith crisis when they learn that Joseph Smith actually had 33 documented plural wives.

I think most TBMs these days understand Joseph practiced polygamy. They just aren't aware of the details.

[_The Nehor]

The picture we share is honest.

Show an honest picture of the translation of the golden plates.
The one used in the Church depicts Oliver and Joseph sat at a table with the plates in front of both of them, Joseph is studying them and Oliver is writing down what he says.

Is that an honest picture?

You do realize we weren't talking about an actual picture right? We were talking about how history is portrayed in a Church classroom setting as a whole.

Protip: Church pictures (like all historical pictures) are not always accurate. From the pictures of Nephites to the pictures of Christ they are artistic representations. Only a moron goes to Michaelangelo's "Last Supper" and expects to get an accurate picture of what the actual event looked like. The same applies to many Church pictures.