Why People Dislike Mormons

[_RockSlider]

sethpayne,

My guess is that you live/lived in the "mission field", not in the Mormon corridor.

[Guest]

Robert D. Crockett of [in real life removed],

I have a request for you today. Please print out the following quote and post the same on your fridge so you can read it and apply it in your daily living. It really is good advice:

I'd like to see us focus less on converting others to our lifestyle, and simply live so that our lifestyle becomes more attractive to others. There is only one character trait you can demonstrate that other people will find irresistible, and that trait is kindness. "In the end," as the song goes, "Only kindness matters."

[_Bond James Bond]

Yea, you are absolutely right. Mormons should become more apart of the world. They should say curse words and talk like they are on the Jersey Shore or any other show that is now on TV. Yea, Mormons should be out there boning women and men after dowing some alcohol. And they should be more normal and catch genital herpes like 25% of the american population. If Mormons wish to convert more people, they need to get piss ass drunk, bone away, wake up with a hangover and view others as buttheads.

And yes, they should wear regular underwear. Heck, Mormon chicks should wear scanty underwear the kind that just covers the crack so when they meet a guy like me, I can enjoy the site when they take off their underpants. Yea, Bond, you are spot on.

Now of course, when we read Paul he is encouraging the early saints to be different from the pagans. What an idiot he was. He should have been encouraging the christians to be more pagan like.

Yea Bond, you are absolutely right. Those crazy Mormons who try not to be of the world but in the world.

Desired effect of my hyperbole. Mormons can do whatever the heck they want, this is America after all. But they shouldn't expect to gain tons of converts or be liked by general society as long as they continue along the same cultural course. They'll continue to be nothing but a punch line for mainstream American society.

[_sethpayne]

sethpayne,

My guess is that you live/lived in the "mission field", not in the Mormon corridor.

Hi Relief Society,

I did. But I do have to say that all of my siblings live in Utah and they all have non-LDS friends. Granted, they mostly work in jobs where they travel a lot and thus have, over the years, gained a lot of exposure to other cultures and beliefs.

I did live in Utah for about 5 years in the early 2000's so I recognize there are "Utah Mormons" who fit the bill of what Kevin has described. However, my *personal* experience has been that the level of obnoxiousness described in the original article and by Kevin is the exception and not the rule.

Seth

[_Hoops]

I have the unique perspective of having lived in areas where Mormons are very few, where Mormons are more prominent but decidedly less than a majority, and where Mormons are a huge majority. (I'm not sure what "the Mormon corridor" is, but I'm assuming i was in the heart of it).

My experience while living among Mormons was dissatisfying to say the least. At first, during the first 6 months of living there, our neighbors were wonderful and the other kids treated our kids quite well. Once word got out that my kids and I were not ripe for conversion and that we were believing, practicing protestant's that all changed. My kids were ostracized from much of everything kids do. From being the only child on the team not invited to team outtings, to my family being the only family not being invited to neighborhood gatherings. There are many more examples, but you get the idea. Then there was many, many times when my kids could not go over to another kid's house because we aren't Mormon. The Mormon kids were, of course, welcome at our house any time. Then there's the time my 5th grade kid declined the offer of a Book of Mormon with the response of ,"my parents don't want me to have that", resulting in a buzz throughout the schoolyard of my kids damnation.

As it happens, our business required we deal with the one in charge of deciding who in a partcular ward is helped by the church. We had to deal with this person(s) 8 times. In EVERY instance, the bishop has lied to us, repeatedly. Causing us to avoid working with LDS families who were relying on the Bishop for some help. We're just finishing up with the latest example.

All that was fine, we took it in stride. But the final straw came when decisions about sports and academic opportunities came down to who was the bishop's kid or which kid went to which ward. When we started seeing more and more of that happening, we bolted as fast as possible. And, I can not tell you how refresshing it is to be away from all of that. Sorry Mormons, if you are expecting me to interact with you with a clean slate each time, I just don't see that as possible. Perhaps that's on me, perhaps not. Fool me once.... you get the idea.

I came to Mormonville with the naïve belief that Mormons are just like everybody else, all the faults the rest of us have, but regular people who live their faith and try to be decent to other people. Sometimes failing like the rest of us, sometimes succeeding. And that my religion would be considered just as profound to us as their's is to them. How wrong could one person be. I would recommend to any non-mormon with a family I know to never, ever, ever live where Mormons are so prominant (prominent?). When my kids are grown I would consider living their again, but not until.

[_Kevin Graham]

when you were a TBM are you saying that you had no "genuine" friends who were not LDS?

Good question. And the answer is not really.

But we moved to Atlanta when I was 16 and I immediately befriended the Mormons across the street. I became depressed and anti-social after being forced to leave my home and adjust to a new environment. We left a private school of 300 students to go to a public school of 4,000. I finished half my junior and all of my senior year at this school, and for the most part I was an unhappy kid. The Mormons across the street were my only friends for the most part. I was 19 when I was baptized, and then kicked out of my house for doing so. I moved in with the Mormons across the street and went on a mission a year later. After baptism, I spent all my time working at a Mormon company called NuSkin, trying to save money for my mission. There, I expanded my social network of Mormon friends. Because the company was LDS owned, virtually everyone working there was Mormon.

So I went on my mission and when I returned I moved in with a Mormon family I met at NuSkin They had 12 kids and virtually all of them had only Mormon friends. So I was young and impressionable and I totally ate up the Mormon paradigm. I went to the church dances and only dated Mormons. We'd watch PG movies and then sometimes go to a group activity and watch one of the many Church videos we saw a billion times on our missions. We'd watch the Michael McClain performance and bear our testimonies, etc. I remember attending live plays where local Mormons performed "Saturday's Warrior" for the locals. I actually bought the soundtrack to that movie and would listen to it in the car. That's how much of a dork I was.

I had practically no contact with any of my family for the simple reason that they felt I was too weird and unpredictable. They knew the Mormons across the street practiced very strange things and they saw their older brother as a very different person. After my mission I'd show outward frustration if one of my siblings cursed, or if my parents made comments that would play my emotions; they'd say things like they heard in the news that wine if actually healthy, etc.They were always uncomfortable around me because they knew I was always trying to convert them, and I was. After all the patriarchal blessing told me that if I was faithful and obedient, I would see my biological family in the Church.

So for a good 7-8 years after my mission, my social network consisted of mainly LDS folk, with the exception of a few family members I stayed in contact with.

I guess in retrospect I was never consciously trying to ignore them, but the simple fact is that as a faithful Mormon, my time was consumed with all things related to obeying the Church. There were callings, Church activities, that required my full attention throughout any given week. There was the need to be a light to the world and shine an example for all Gentiles to see. Of course I was friendly towards them, but I was never really interested in being "friends" with them in a way that would involve a "normal" friendship. Meaning, because my neighbor wasn't Mormon, I wasn't likely to go watch football with him because he would drink a beer, and as a faithful Mormon, I knew that being around such evil spirits would threaten my salvation. As the popular analogy went, if you're not walking on the edge of the volcano, you don't have to worry about falling in (temptation) so why walk there at all? Just stay away from these environments as much as you can.

So yes, this presents a negative impression for folks who are not LDS. I'm not saying which is right or wrong, I'm just saying it is necessarily "different" and when Mormons try to appear "normal" or "friendly" towards others, for the sole purpose of "Building Relationships of Trust"( "BRT" in the mission field) it comes across as fake when that friendliness comes to an abrupt end when that person doesn't show interest in religion.

Just last month my wife threw a surprise party for me. She invited everyone on my contacts list in my cell phone. Some of these people I had not seen in many years. Of the 40+ people who showed up, roughly seven of them were LDS. And everyone else knew right from the get-go who they were, without even asking. Were they nice? Of course. And two weeks ago my wife invited some people from Church to go to my son's birthday party at the pool. The Mormons stuck out like sore thumbs for no other reason than the fact that, unlike the rest of her Brazilian friends, they were pasty white, wearing one piece bathing suits. When chatter time came, there was practically nothing in common. Typical Mormons are boring to the rest of society. It is just the way it is. What are we going to talk about anyway, the weather? "How about those Braves"? Gentile conversations occasionally raise comments or allude to things that are objectionable to Mormon sentiments. The guy who baptized me, whenever we talk on the phone all he can think to talk about is stuff that we laughed about twenty years ago. There appears to be nothing "new" that we could use to reestablish our relationship. We have nothing in common. Our interests have drifted apart. When we meet up once every other year, we usually do so with other past LDS friends, and I sit there and listen to them "socialize" the Mormon way. They'll chat about Mormon subjects, such as what callings they've had over the years. How boring is that?

And the same is true whenever our home teachers arrive. I treat them with every bit of courtesy as I would anyone else. I offer them food, drink and I never suggest it is time for them to leave. I love visitors in my home and as far as I'm concerned, they can stay as long as they want. The same is true when we have the Elders over for dinner. Which is funny because people like Yahoo Bot constantly refer to me as the eternal enemy of Mormonism. However, the locals consider me a "Saint" in ways that other Mormons simply can't match. Much of this is due to financial stability of course, as I'm in a position to feed missionaries regularly, pull over to give them rides home when I see them on the street, etc etc. Members sometimes call me up to help them with a project they have, and when I have time I go along with them. So in what sense am i an enemy of the Church? Because I occasionally refute an apologist who is being disingenuous.

So anyway, to answer your question, the answer is no I didn't have many genuine friends outside the Church. This is probably why this article resonates with me so. Mormons are focused on different things and teh rest of society views them as weird and fake, and for good reason.

[_sethpayne]

when you were a TBM are you saying that you had no "genuine" friends who were not LDS?

Good question. And the answer is not really.

But we moved to Atlanta when I was 16 and I immediately befriended the Mormons across the street. I became depressed and anti-social after being forced to leave my home and adjust to a new environment. We left a private school of 300 students to go to a public school of 4,000. I finished half my junior and all of my senior year at this school, and for the most part I was an unhappy kid. The Mormons across the street were my only friends for the most part. I was 19 when I was baptized, and then kicked out of my house for doing so. I moved in with the Mormons across the street and went on a mission a year later. After baptism, I spent all my time working at a Mormon company called NuSkin, trying to save money for my mission. There, I expanded my social network of Mormon friends. Because the company was LDS owned, virtually everyone working there was Mormon.

So I went on my mission and when I returned I moved in with a Mormon family I met at NuSkin They had 12 kids and virtually all of them had only Mormon friends. So I was young and impressionable and I totally ate up the Mormon paradigm. I went to the church dances and only dated Mormons. We'd watch PG movies and then sometimes go to a group activity and watch one of the many Church videos we saw a billion times on our missions. We'd watch the Michael McClain performance and bear our testimonies, etc. I remember attending live plays where local Mormons performed "Saturday's Warrior" for the locals. I actually bought the soundtrack to that movie and would listen to it in the car. That's how much of a dork I was.

I had practically no contact with any of my family for the simple reason that they felt I was too weird and unpredictable. They knew the Mormons across the street practiced very strange things and they saw their older brother as a very different person. After my mission I'd show outward frustration if one of my siblings cursed, or if my parents made comments that would play my emotions; they'd say things like they heard in the news that wine if actually healthy, etc.They were always uncomfortable around me because they knew I was always trying to convert them, and I was. After all the patriarchal blessing told me that if I was faithful and obedient, I would see my biological family in the Church.

So for a good 7-8 years after my mission, my social network consisted of mainly LDS folk, with the exception of a few family members I stayed in contact with.

I guess in retrospect I was never consciously trying to ignore them, but the simple fact is that as a faithful Mormon, my time was consumed with all things related to obeying the Church. There were callings, Church activities, that required my full attention throughout any given week. There was the need to be a light to the world and shine an example for all Gentiles to see. Of course I was friendly towards them, but I was never really interested in being "friends" with them in a way that would involve a "normal" friendship. Meaning, because my neighbor wasn't Mormon, I wasn't likely to go watch football with him because he would drink a beer, and as a faithful Mormon, I knew that being around such evil spirits would threaten my salvation. As the popular analogy went, if you're not walking on the edge of the volcano, you don't have to worry about falling in (temptation) so why walk there at all? Just stay away from these environments as much as you can.

So yes, this presents a negative impression for folks who are not LDS. I'm not saying which is right or wrong, I'm just saying it is necessarily "different" and when Mormons try to appear "normal" or "friendly" towards others, for the sole purpose of "Building Relationships of Trust"( "BRT" in the mission field) it comes across as fake when that friendliness comes to an abrupt end when that person doesn't show interest in religion.

Just last month my wife threw a surprise party for me. She invited everyone on my contacts list in my cell phone. Some of these people I had not seen in many years. Of the 40+ people who showed up, roughly seven of them were LDS. And everyone else knew right from the get-go who they were, without even asking. Were they nice? Of course. And two weeks ago my wife invited some people from Church to go to my son's birthday party at the pool. The Mormons stuck out like sore thumbs for no other reason than the fact that, unlike the rest of her Brazilian friends, they were pasty white, wearing one piece bathing suits. When chatter time came, there was practically nothing in common. Typical Mormons are boring to the rest of society. It is just the way it is. What are we going to talk about anyway, the weather? "How about those Braves"? Gentile conversations occasionally raise comments or allude to things that are objectionable to Mormon sentiments. The guy who baptized me, whenever we talk on the phone all he can think to talk about is stuff that we laughed about twenty years ago. There appears to be nothing "new" that we could use to reestablish our relationship. We have nothing in common. Our interests have drifted apart. When we meet up once every other year, we usually do so with other past LDS friends, and I sit there and listen to them "socialize" the Mormon way. They'll chat about Mormon subjects, such as what callings they've had over the years. How boring is that?

And the same is true whenever our home teachers arrive. I treat them with every bit of courtesy as I would anyone else. I offer them food, drink and I never suggest it is time for them to leave. I love visitors in my home and as far as I'm concerned, they can stay as long as they want. The same is true when we have the Elders over for dinner. Which is funny because people like Yahoo Bot constantly refer to me as the eternal enemy of Mormonism. However, the locals consider me a "Saint" in ways that other Mormons simply can't match. Much of this is due to financial stability of course, as I'm in a position to feed missionaries regularly, pull over to give them rides home when I see them on the street, etc etc. Members sometimes call me up to help them with a project they have, and when I have time I go along with them. So in what sense am i an enemy of the Church? Because I occasionally refute an apologist who is being disingenuous.

So anyway, to answer your question, the answer is no I didn't have many genuine friends outside the Church. This is probably why this article resonates with me so. Mormons are focused on different things and the rest of society views them as weird and fake, and for good reason.

Kevin,

Thanks so much for sharing. One the things I like about your posts is that you are open and honest about your experiences. Given your experience, I can appreciate why you have this perspective.

I've heard other stories like yours and it makes me very sad. I was very lucky to grow up in a Mormon environment where yes, Mormonism was the absolute truth, but a big part of that truth was not just tolerance of other people's beliefs and practices, but also an appreciation for these differences.

When I studied ex-Mormon narratives, or "exit stories" in graduate school the one thing I really came away with is that members of the Church really need to do a better job of exhibiting kindness to those who choose to leave. The rhetoric some Latter-day Saints use to describe those who have left the Church is abhorrent. When I see these harsh and unkind words I always want to reply: "Would Jesus post that statement?"

Anyway, thanks again for sharing your experience.

Seth

Seth

[_ajax18]

I always shared the gospel with people I wanted to get rid of. I was always impressed that for the amount of welfare the church gives out, they do a pretty good job keeping away welfare people.

[_RockSlider]

I have the unique perspective of having lived in areas where Mormons are very few, where Mormons are more prominent but decidedly less than a majority, and where Mormons are a huge majority. (I'm not sure what "the Mormon corridor" is, but I'm assuming i was in the heart of it).

I believe the "corridor" is Idaho, Utah and Arizonia, with Las Vegas Nevada also having a high density.
Of course the Wasatch Front (North end of Utah to Nephi) used to have the highest density. SLC has likely thinned somewhat, and Idaho well might currently have the highest densities.

I live in a small town with a very high percentage and my experience follows what Kevin and Hoops have just described. They are not exaggerating what the Heber, Utah experience/lifestyle is all about.

[_consiglieri]

Thanks for posting the article, Kevin.

There is lots of food for thought there, as in your comments (and Bond's rant).

It reminds me of a personal story that I have shared with very few people over the years, and certainly not with the people involved.

My best friend in high school was Mormon and baptized me shortly after I graduated. He had activities over at his house every Friday night to which a group of friends had an open invitation, and we had lots of fun. No opening prayers. No scripture chase. Nothing remotely "Mormon" about the activities. Some who attended were Mormon, most were not.

I have to say that my friend came to know me in 9th grade and we were friends for almost four years before I was baptized. He would try to bring up the church every now and then, but I would shoot him down, often in ways that I now realize must have been upsetting to him.

It was only at the end of my senior year that I suddenly took an intense interest in Mormonism, had the missionary discussions and was baptized.

About a month later, I was at a Pioneer Day camping activity, and my friend was there in a crowd of other Mormon youth, including me now.

My friend was talking with everybody about the plans he had to baptize another guy who was in the Friday night gatherings.

It sounded rather bloodless, to me.


But the overwhelming feeling I had, and that I remember to this day, was that I was just a project; that my friend had been working to baptize me the way he was working to baptize this other guy.

I wasn't sure if I felt used, or jealous.

But I also reflected that it really didn't seem that many people would be baptized unless somebody worked on teaching them, and actually tried to get them to join.

I am ambivalent about the whole process, but it does leave a bad taste in my mouth, and so I can more than understand how non-members would feel the same way.

I have found in the last several years that, when I am not gaming non-members to join the church, I am much more open and able to share my feelings about the gospel with them. I just tend to do it in a way that is not so dogmatic or preachy.

I also seem to find time to listen to their views; and without feeling the need to correct them.


All the Best!

--Consiglieri