Joseph Smith Legacy (Consolidation)

[_Ceeboo]

Hey again, SS (Thanks for the reply)

For the following reasons:

- Atheism isn't a sad thing.

"Atheism being a sad thing" was/is never my intended message. If that is how it came across, I will gladly take credit for the confusion and apologize for it.

It's one of the best things I've ever come to

Understood (I really think I do understand)

- Joe's legacy is certainly filled with sadness, but mostly for still-believing members, not those who have left

I guess that is what this thread is all about (Thanks for providing your perspective)

- The real sadness for exmo's has to do with the way leaving messes with family relationships, not with what members end up (not) believing

Great point and I agree with you.

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_just me]

Most Mormons who leave or stop participation because of lack of interest and anithapy, life style choices that may conflict and simply losing or not being interested. I think this is true for people of many faiths.


Some who leave that were very active TBMs, and such are represented by many here do so because they explore the founding claims and history of the LDS church perhaps more than they did up to that point and conclude that such claims are lacking or false. Some also leave because of cultural issues like such things as prop 8 and treatment of gays, prior racial teachings and so on. Often those lose faith in any God. But some end up EVs or something else. Often when such leave they look at other religious claims with the same critical eye that led them to conclude the LDS church as false they find much problematic with other regions as well. Thus the agnostic, atheistic or general apathetic approach to religion.

Ceebo, I think were I to leave for another religion I would consider the Catholic Church. I like the rich liturgy and other aspects one of which is you can be a good Catholic and ignore quite a bit of it in the process. :-).

This says what I think really well. Except the becoming Catholic part. I like paganism better. :D

[_Ceeboo]

Hi Jason,

Ceebo, I think were I to leave for another religion I would consider the Catholic Church.

As I am sure you know, the Catholic Church has a long list of "yuck" that clearly belongs on the 2,000 year resume.

I like the rich liturgy and other aspects one of which is you can be a good Catholic and ignore quite a bit of it in the process. :-).

Indeed, most of the Catholics I know (That's a lot of people by the way) have issues with at least a few things (Indulgences, Real Prescence in the Holy Eucharist, Child molestation by Priests, Council of Nicea, Corruption, Papal issues, Political, etc, etc,).

This includes Ceeboo, for what it's worth.

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Themis]

I don't know anyone who has left for that one. Most stopped believing those ones while remaining very believing in the church and being active. Many believing members today don't believe in a global flood. It is the issues unique to Mormonism like the Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham, polygamy, etc.

Go back and re-read, Themis. I did not say that's why people leave the Church.

You are correct. I would add that I do think those things do influence those who no longer believe LDS clams in becoming agnostic/atheist.

[_Themis]

Indeed, most of the Catholics I know (That's a lot of people by the way) have issues with at least a few things (Indulgences, Real Prescence in the Holy Eucharist, Child molestation by Priests, Council of Nicea, Corruption, Papal issues, Political, etc, etc,).

This includes Ceeboo, for what it's worth.

Peace,
Ceeboo

This is why more people will leave LDS where it is not tolerated well.

[_sock puppet]

If one can be open minded enough to see that their religion is false, then they will probably be open minded about other religions as well. I think this legacy you see is probably common among other groups who hold themselves up as the one true religion.

If you're an LDS missionary, you encounter a lot of other religions and you can easily find a lot of reasons why they're false (though of course at the time you won't subject Mormonism to the same scrutiny).

So when you stop believing in Mormonism, it's from a position of having already examined the warts of other churches, oftentimes.

In my mission, it was commonly heard other missionaries saying if they did not remain Mormon, they'd be Catholic, but no other religion. The rationale was the claim to authority from Jesus, but that even with Catholicism they'd have to get over the notion of the Great Apostasy.

[_Buffalo]

In my mission, it was commonly heard other missionaries saying if they did not remain Mormon, they'd be Catholic, but no other religion. The rationale was the claim to authority from Jesus, but that even with Catholicism they'd have to get over the notion of the Great Apostasy.

Yes, that was common in mine as well.

Another reason, I think, is that Catholicism looks kind of cool and dangerous on TV. Cool outfits, mystical ceremonies, kind of creepy statues. Evangelicals come off like Ned Flanders.

[_honorentheos]

Hi Ceeboo,

I think Blixa summed up my thoughts best. I think most journeys out of the LDS faith are diverse and complicated. My conversations with friends who have left suggests to me that my journey out was not too unusual. I know I spent a good deal of time considering becoming some form of Christian, and one friend even thought I had become Buddhist because I had spent a good deal of time becoming familiar with it's teachings.

I consider myself agnostic simply because it feels the most honest. I don't believe in the biblical God and consider myself atheistic towards all forms of Christianity now. But within the last year I attended my first Catholic service on the suggestion of Jersy Girl. And I enjoyed it. Not because I suspect I could believe, but because of other's belief and the fruits of that belief. I attend various church meetings on occasion in an exploritory way - not in search of a home, but as a means of understanding other's faith journeys and sharing in what moves them. In some ways, I feel closer to other's forms of experiencing the divine because I am not interested in the dogma or "truthiness" of the questions.

That said, I found your comment a bit insensitive. I doubt you intended it to offend, and would not take it as directly offensive. But it certainly seemed to single out Mormonism for something I did not feel was justified.

I asked a follow-up question in Sock's thread, mainly because I am genuinely curious if those two points in anyway reflect your views. I hope you find time to answer them.

Thanks.

[_quark]

for what it's worth Mr. Ceeboo:

Since losing all my respect for the man who communed with Jehovah, I have moved in ways that have been extremely meaningful. By distancing myself from a correlated doctrine, I have found ways to see other works from a whole new light. I'm spending a couple of days in New Mexico and found a couple hours in which to explore an old Catholic Parish built in the early 18th century. Inside, I found a large statue of Mary who was looking fondly at her son, laying below in a coffin thing. I just stood there and looked at her. I wondered at how it might be to meet her. What an amazing experience! As an adult, I find it interesting that I never experienced this until now. When I think about other beliefs, I'm like a child. I just soak it all in. I love looking at art because my spirituality is FREE now. “F” correlation! “F” Joseph Smith!

[_Stormy Waters]

What would you suggest is the most common reason/reasons why people leave the LDS Church? (I am asking at the time they leave and not an evolving process over time after they have left)

What is the biggest reason/reasons (If you happen to agree with me) that X-LDS people are often on a warp speed tract to Atheism?

From the exits stories that I've read it seems a pretty common theme that people start reading about the history and feel that they have been lied to.

I can't speak for everyone that becomes an atheist, but I'll answer for myself. Once I admitted I was wrong about the church, it made me question the foundation of my convictions. How could I have faith in another church? How would I be sure that I wasn't wrong again? It's difficult for me to conceive that there is a God, but that he makes us take his existence on Faith. That he leaves us to rely on something we felt. In my life feelings have never been a good indicator on whether or not something was true. Why should I rely on them for something as important as whether or not he exists?

It also seems unlikely to me that if there is a God that he will punish me for eternity for the 'sin' of doubting his existence. It seem odd to me that an all powerful being would be offended that I doubted him when he gave me no way to know for sure whether or not he existed.