Simon Belmont wrote:Darth J wrote:Joseph Smith is dead, and all and sundry sects of Mormonism claim him as their prophet.
He either invented it, or it was told to him. He owned it, and by default, his church owns it. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is that church. We cannot stop other churches from using it, but it is our term, and we are the only Mormons.
In the past, Simon Belmont has said on this board that
Rough Stone Rolling is the best biography ever about Joseph Smith. (For example, see him praising it here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17129&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=63) Its author, Richard L. Bushman, is
the Howard W. Hunter Visiting Professor in Mormon Studies at Claremont Graduate University. Let's see what Professor Bushman has to say in his book,
Mormonism: A Very Short Introduction, regarding Simon Belmont's assertion:
Pages 13-14Varieties of Mormonism
Mormonism now consists of scores of independent factions that have emerged over the years. The church bearing the name of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, headquartered in Salt Lake City, is only the largest entity in a broad movement. A number of separate groups sprang up in the decades after Joseph Smith's death in 1844 when there was a contest to succeed him as president of the church. After Brigham Young led the largest contingent west to the Great Basin in 1847, a substantial number of Mormons who stayed behind formed the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints under Joseph Smith's son. Known since 2001 as the Community of Christ, this branch of Mormonism is headquartered in Independence, Missouri.
In the early twentieth century, another major split took place following the abandonment of plural marriage in 1890. So-called fundamentalist groups held on to polygamy and claimed to continue authentic Mormonism. They believed that the main body of the church had strayed. The fundamentalists are the groups now notorious in the press for their practice of plural marriage in opposition to anti-bigamy laws.
These divergent wings of the Mormon movement exemplify the complex forces operating within Mormonism to this day.
The FLDS do in fact refer to themselves as "Mormon," as was explained by the expert witness whose affidavit is linked to in my blog post.
Your concession is also contradicting Gordon B. Hinckley:
Gordon B. Hinckley, October 1998 General Conference
There is no such thing as a “Mormon Fundamentalist.” It is a contradiction to use the two words together.
There really is no such thing, however, a group of people call themselves "Fundamentalist Mormons," so that's the name by which we refer to them. Another example, there is no such word as "Baconator" but it is the hamburger at Wendy's with a crap load of bacon and Wendy's refers to it as the Baconator.
Where your analogy falls apart is that Wendy's has trademarked "Baconator" because it describes a unique product made only by that restaurant.
By contrast, the United States Patent and Trademark Office denied the LDS Church's application to trademark "Mormon" because "[g]eneric terms are by definition incapable of indicating a particular source of the services, and cannot be registered as trademarks....One of the generic names of a religion may not register for religious services under Section 2(f), or on the Supplemental Register."
http://tdr.uspto.gov/jsp/DocumentViewPa ... /false#p=1Was he disingenuous, or are you incorrect?
Neither option in your false dichotomy will suffice.
See: No true Scotsman fallacyThe Church of Jesus Christ is not the proper name of the LDS Church. It is the proper name of the Bickertonite church.
You didn't answer my question. Do you believe The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches people
how to speak?
You're right. I am ignoring your thinking that deliberate obtuseness is a clever rhetorical device.
The proper name of the LDS Church is the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. That is the name of the corporation sole organized under the state of Utah that is a legally-recognized religious entity.
That is the legal entity, yes. So what?
So let's call things by their proper names to avoid confusion with the many, many other denominations that refer to themselves as "The Church of Jesus Christ."
In that press release to which I linked.
Don't see it.
Well, it's something that is actually published by the Church, and I know how it disturbs you to go to the Church to find actual LDS teachings/policies/statements.
Simon, after you recover from that headupyourassectomy that you have been putting off for so long, maybe you would like to explain why the LDS Church was denied a trademark for the word "Mormon."
You just keep setting up those strawmen and knocking them down, Darth J. It's what you're best at.
Hey, kids! Now you, too, can have the rapier wit and razor-sharp mind of Simon Belmont! Let's watch as
SIMON BELMONT EXPLAINS THE STRAW MAN FALLACY!1. Darth J says that the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office denied the LDS Church's application to trademark the name "Mormon" because it is a generic description of a religious movement.
2. The above is irrefutably true:
http://tdr.uspto.gov/jsp/DocumentViewPa ... /false#p=13. Simon Belmont says, "Nuh-uh!"
4. See? It's a straw man!
For more on Simon Belmont's masterfully pointing out the straw man fallacy---and not at all making a complete fool of himself!---you can visit the first two pages of this thread:
http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3 ... &sk=t&sd=a