What truths re the world stemmed 1st from religious faith?

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_harmony
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Re: What truths re the world stemmed 1st from religious faith?

Post by _harmony »

EAllusion wrote:Harmony -

Religions have evolved their ideas on how life should be lived and why. All you did was pick an example that was broad and easily established enough that it wouldn't be likely to change much. Change it to, "It's Ok to keep slaves" and your mileage may vary. Heck, what exactly it means to "love" has consistently changed as people's understanding has changed. You can do likewise with basic empirical facts. 200 years ago people thought the sun rises in the east. That hasn't changed.

Part of the problem is your definitions of "truth" and "fact" are incoherent enough that you end up drawing distinctions that don't actually exist.


(removing snarky comment)

The distinction is facts can be proven (ie, scientific) and truth can't.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_moksha
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What truths stemmed 1st from religious faith?

Post by _moksha »

The secular world gave us toolmaking by which we had the means to kill animals for food, and one another, with greater efficiency and effectiveness. The religious world suggested we shouldn't kill one another and that we should save some of the food for the shaman.
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_Nightlion
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Re: What truths re the world stemmed 1st from religious faith?

Post by _Nightlion »

In 1844 Joseph Smith spoke of the eternal duration of matter and said all spirit is matter. (King Follet)
I am not certain when the first law of thermodynamics was officially stated. It may have been sooner, maybe not. Einstein believe the two laws of thermodynamics to be possible the only laws science will never overturn.

I cannot find it right off but I think Joseph Smith said something even more distinct about it. Was he first? How did he learn of it?

This is close to stating the First Law of Thermodynamics
D&C 93:
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.
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_Buffalo
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Re: What truths re the world stemmed 1st from religious faith?

Post by _Buffalo »

harmony wrote:
You're still discussing fact. Scientific fact is subject to change based on updated evidence.

Truth, on the other hand, isn't subject to change because the evidence is always the same.

So to answer your title question: all of them.


You seem to be using "truth" to refer to "comforting beliefs."

Truth = facts. Anyone who says differently is selling something (possibly at 10% of your income).
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Buffalo
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Re: What truths re the world stemmed 1st from religious faith?

Post by _Buffalo »

harmony wrote:
Updating evidence:
Science 200+ years ago--the earth is flat
Science today--the earth is round

The same evidence:
Religion 2000+ years ago: love is important
Religion today: love is important

See?


Was this intended to be factual? If so, you've got your facts wrong. The Greeks knew the earth was round, long before Christ. Meanwhile, the flatness of the earth is enshrine in the Bible.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Buffalo
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Re: What truths re the world stemmed 1st from religious faith?

Post by _Buffalo »

Nightlion wrote:In 1844 Joseph Smith spoke of the eternal duration of matter and said all spirit is matter. (King Follet)
I am not certain when the first law of thermodynamics was officially stated. It may have been sooner, maybe not. Einstein believe the two laws of thermodynamics to be possible the only laws science will never overturn.

I cannot find it right off but I think Joseph Smith said something even more distinct about it. Was he first? How did he learn of it?

This is close to stating the First Law of Thermodynamics
D&C 93:
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.


If I recall correctly, the eternal duration of matter was a concept that predates Smith. However, we now know it's not precisely true, as sub-atomic particles pop in and out of existence all the time.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_harmony
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Re: What truths re the world stemmed 1st from religious faith?

Post by _harmony »

Buffalo wrote:You seem to be using "truth" to refer to "comforting beliefs."

Truth = facts. Anyone who says differently is selling something (possibly at 10% of your income).


No, Buffalo. Truth does not equal facts. And what you're selling, I'm not buying.

Again, for those who don't read to the bottom of the page: The distinction is facts can be proven (ie, scientific) and truth can't.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_Buffalo
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Re: What truths re the world stemmed 1st from religious faith?

Post by _Buffalo »

harmony wrote:
Buffalo wrote:You seem to be using "truth" to refer to "comforting beliefs."

Truth = facts. Anyone who says differently is selling something (possibly at 10% of your income).


No, Buffalo. Truth does not equal facts. And what you're selling, I'm not buying.

Again, for those who don't read to the bottom of the page: The distinction is facts can be proven (ie, scientific) and truth can't.


The only useful definition of truth is "a state of being in accord with fact or reality." Everything else is so much fluffy mumbo jumbo.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_harmony
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Re: What truths re the world stemmed 1st from religious faith?

Post by _harmony »

Buffalo wrote:The only useful definition of truth is "a state of being in accord with fact or reality." Everything else is so much fluffy mumbo jumbo.


It would perhaps have been more accurate to say "the only useful definition of truth to Buffalo is... blah blah blah."

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but fluffy mumbo jumbo describes a lot of scientific fact. ;-)
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_Buffalo
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Re: What truths re the world stemmed 1st from religious faith?

Post by _Buffalo »

harmony wrote:
Buffalo wrote:The only useful definition of truth is "a state of being in accord with fact or reality." Everything else is so much fluffy mumbo jumbo.


It would perhaps have been more accurate to say "the only useful definition of truth to Buffalo is... blah blah blah."

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but fluffy mumbo jumbo describes a lot of scientific fact. ;-)


I didn't have you pegged for an anti-science nut, Harmony. Sorry to hear you expressing that sort of thing.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
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