Joseph Antley's Apostasy from the Church

[_Joseph Antley]

For example, the imaginary construct of an LDS Church that teaches that the ontological value of a given doctrine depends on whether you will be excommunicated if you question it.

I understand that you're trying to make a zinger but I worry that you're missing the point of my post.

[Guest]

If the global flood did not happen, then the Book of Abraham is not true. (Abraham 1:21-27)

So what you're telling us Professor J, is that God went through this elaborate effort to coordinate passing down an ancient Egyptian papyri through the ages and into a 19th century circus so that a prophet would discover it, but not only was the Egyptian language a smokescreen for some kind of buried code, but the code purported events that never happened, a smokescreen for some other kind of message. We know from the Book of Moses that God can just give a vision of the text he wants and from the D&C that he can tell us straightforwardly what he wants us to know. So the Book of Abraham is not what you'd call getting a bang for your buck. I'm all for buying an onion and scrapping the first couple of layers but this is pushing the envelope.

I have to wonder, if we believe in God and all, what is more likely?

That God would know more than science and tell us what happened, or that God would take this epic detour to communicate, well, not even the prophet apparently knows what he communicated?

[_Joseph Antley]

And anyway, rejecting the doctrine of a global flood---which is unequivocally officially taught by the Church---creates significant problems in accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet.

Sure, if you believe that prophets, their teachings, their writings, their scriptures, etc., were 100% from God and always meant to be understood for no other purpose than as historical fact.

[_Darth J]

For example, the imaginary construct of an LDS Church that teaches that the ontological value of a given doctrine depends on whether you will be excommunicated if you question it.

I understand that you're trying to make a zinger but I worry that you're missing the point of my post.

The point of your post is the richly fulfilling philosophical journey of being a cafeteria Mormon.

[_Darth J]

And anyway, rejecting the doctrine of a global flood---which is unequivocally officially taught by the Church---creates significant problems in accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet.

Sure, if you believe that prophets, their teachings, their writings, their scriptures, etc., were 100% from God and always meant to be understood for no other purpose than as historical fact.

Or the corollary: that prophets, their teachings, their writings, their scriptures, etc. are not from God and not meant to have any particular correlation to objective reality.

The Church is true, though.

[_Joseph Antley]

Or the corollary: that prophets, their teachings, their writings, their scriptures, etc. are not from God and not meant to have any particular correlation to objective reality.

I've never really accepted the either it's from God or it's from man dichotomy that's been pitched around, so no, I don't buy this one either.

[_Joseph Antley]

The point of your post is the richly fulfilling philosophical journey of being a cafeteria Mormon.

I think I'm much too spiritually inclined to ever be satisfied as a cafeteria Mormon. But I forget that you don't know me very well.

[_MrStakhanovite]

Joe,

You are probably going to have to lay out how you interpret scriptures, how and where you draw the line when it comes to metaphor, history, man's error, and God's truth.

[_Joseph Antley]

Joe,

You are probably going to have to lay out how you interpret scriptures, how and where you draw the line when it comes to metaphor, history, man's error, and God's truth.

In my personal study, when I think that I can feel the Spirit, I do something very similar that.

[_MsJack]

The point of your post is the richly fulfilling philosophical journey of being a cafeteria Mormon.

All Mormons are cafeteria Mormons.

Some are just more self-aware of this fact than others.