Where it has always been. In upstate NY with the distinct and Book of Mormon supported possibility of there having been a first one somewhere else where the last battle was.
BC, I understand that this is your theory. Is this the official LGT apologetic theory as well?
It's official LDS doctrine since at least the two-part Sorenson article. I would argue that it's so clear in the Book of Mormon, that it's been doctrine since day one. Moroni, having wandered for decades hunted and pursued, buries them in upstate NY and calls it Cumorah just like the place the the plates were stored when he originally got them was called Cumorah.
Even when I read the Book of Mormon as a youth, assuming the narrow neck was say, Panama, and that the geography encompassed all or most of North and South America, I always assumed that there were two Cumorahs because of this fact.
bcspace wrote:Even when I read the Book of Mormon as a youth, assuming the narrow neck was say, Panama, and that the geography encompassed all or most of North and South America, I always assumed that there were two Cumorahs because of this fact.
You are obviously more in tune with the spirit than your prophets and apostles.
It is my province to teach to the Church what the doctrine is. It is your province to echo what I say or to remain silent. Bruce R. McConkie
Hey all.... Cherry picking SOME LDS through history that believed Book of Mormon events took place in NY, really don't help you, because there are just as many LDS who believe Book of Mormon events took place in Meso-America.
Most damaging to you is even Joseph Smith believed Book of Mormon events primarily took place in Meso-America.
You guys really need to learn to stop bearing false witness. The Church has no "official" position on the matter, and they've said it over and over again. Yes, you can cherry pick some idiot such as "Watson" who presumed too much, but his opinion still has nothing to do with the Church.
Further, the NY Cumorah IS Cumorah, the one in which the plates were buried. You "add" to many leaders views that that is where they believed the final battle occurred. Not that some didn't have that view, they did, but personal opinions are not the Church.
"Socialism is Rape and Capitalism is consensual sex" - Ben Shapiro
Both Joseph Fielding Smith and Bruce R McConkie refer to testimony left by Joseph Smith that the hill in NY was the same hill Cumorah where the final battle took place. Has anyone seen a quote from Joseph Smith?
"It is known that the Hill Cumorah where the Nephites were destroyed is the hill where the Jaredites were also destroyed. This hill was known to the Jaredites as Rama. It was approximately near to the waters of Ripliancum, which the Book of Ether says, "by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all." Mormon adds: "And it came to pass that we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents round about the hill Cumorah; and it was in a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains; and here we had hope to gain advantage over the Lamanites."
"It must be conceded that this description fits perfectly the land of Cumorah in New York, as it has been known since the visitation of Moroni to the Prophet Joseph Smith, for the hill is in the proximity of the Great Lakes and also in the land of many rivers and fountains. Moreover, the Prophet Joseph Smith himself is on record, definitely declaring the present hill called Cumorah to be the exact hill spoken of in the Book of Mormon." (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation , Vol.3, Bookcraft, 1956, p.232-43.) Note: This quote was also given in the old Book of Mormon Institue Manual on page 461 (48-17).
"Both the Nephite and Jaredite civilizations fought their final great wars of extinction at and near the Hill Cumorah (or Ramah as the Jaredites termed it), which hill is located between Palmyra and Manchester in the western part of the State of New York.
"Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery and many of the early brethren, who were familiar with all the circumstances attending the coming forth of the Book of Mormon in this dispensation, have left us a pointed testimony as to the identity and location of Cumorah or Ramah."(Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, page 174-175, Bookcraft 1966)
It is my province to teach to the Church what the doctrine is. It is your province to echo what I say or to remain silent. Bruce R. McConkie
ldsfaqs wrote:You guys really need to learn to stop bearing false witness.
Your prophet was the one who bore false witness by giving the Book of Mormon to the world as if it was a true history of an ancient people and by stating there was a king's name written in the writing of Facsimile No. 3! And the rest of those Explanations are lies too.
I think you bear false witness by carrying that lie each Sunday to church. All Mormons share in that lie. You have zero credibility with me. Do you know what it means to be honest? Then tell me the name of the king?
President Joseph Fielding Smith was a Mormon apostate and didn't know what he was talking about. Listen to the words of LDS Internet apologists today for they shall lead you into further light and knowledge! Away with the old prophets! Crucify them!
Where it has always been. In upstate NY with the distinct and Book of Mormon supported possibility of there having been a first one somewhere else where the last battle was.
BC, I understand that this is your theory. Is this the official LGT apologetic theory as well?
bcspace wrote:It's official LDS doctrine since at least the two-part Sorenson article. I would argue that it's so clear in the Book of Mormon, that it's been doctrine since day one. Moroni, having wandered for decades hunted and pursued, buries them in upstate NY and calls it Cumorah just like the place the the plates were stored when he originally got them was called Cumorah.
Even when I read the Book of Mormon as a youth, assuming the narrow neck was say, Panama, and that the geography encompassed all or most of North and South America, I always assumed that there were two Cumorahs because of this fact.
Can you provide other examples from the Book of Mormon where the Nephites gave the same name to more than one place? or is this an anomaly among reported Nephite practices?
Can you provide other examples from the Book of Mormon where the Nephites gave the same name to more than one place? or is this an anomaly among reported Nephite practices?
Who cares?
The names in the Book of Mormon were made up by Joseph Smith and his buddies --just like Joseph Smith made up names in Facsimile No. 3 wherein the writing above disagrees with the pretended translator.
Next thing we know the Internet apologists will be trying to tell us the name of the king is Comorah! Wouldn't that beat all?
Can you provide other examples from the Book of Mormon where the Nephites gave the same name to more than one place? or is this an anomaly among reported Nephite practices?
Who cares?
The names in the Book of Mormon were made up by Joseph Smith and his buddies --just like Joseph Smith made up names in Facsimile No. 3 wherein the writing above disagrees with the pretended translator.
Next thing we know the Internet apologists will be trying to tell us the name of the king is Comorah! Wouldn't that beat all?
Paul O
Hey, Paul, glad to see your posts. Hope all is well in this new year, 2012. It seems, If I recall correctly, JSJr was able to conjure a new name for each new geographical place he'd mention in his Book of Mormon narrative. So it would seem contrary to that practice for JSJr to claim that Moroni called a second hill, the one in New York, by the same name of another, already so named hill somewhere else.
sock puppet wrote:Hey, Paul, glad to see your posts. Hope all is well in this new year, 2012. It seems, If I recall correctly, JSJr was able to conjure a new name for each new geographical place he'd mention in his Book of Mormon narrative. So it would seem contrary to that practice for JSJr to claim that Moroni called a second hill, the one in New York, by the same name of another, already so named hill somewhere else.
Happy new year to you too. :-)
I doubt Joseph Smith even thought once about there being two Cumorahs. That's a modern Mormon development. I submit that the Cumorah of the Book of Mormon is no more real than the alleged king's name in Facsimile No. 3. Joseph Smith made both up. The poor Mormons are just living in dreamland trying to milk their testimonies with warm feelings and sugar cookies -- the same warm feelings that the rest of us humankind get all the time. I've had more warm wonderful feelings knowing the church isn't true than I ever had knowing it was true! Imagine that!! It's a reverse testimony!