Joseph believed that he was able to find lost objects

[_Runtu]

I know I have asked it before, but I still want to know why Joseph Smith didn't use the seer stone to find the lost 116 pages.

Because by then the seer stone was being used to translate, not to find stuff. Duh.

[_dblagent007]

I know I have asked it before, but I still want to know why Joseph Smith didn't use the seer stone to find the lost 116 pages.

<putting on apologist hat> This is easy. Lucy Harris burned the 116 pages so there was nothing to find. Oh, and don't even think about arguing that this is inconsistent with the story given in D&C 10 (i.e., evil men would alter the words of the manuscript) because, if you didn't know this already, various apologetic theories do not need to be consistent with each other - e.g., loose translation and Hebraisms. </apologist>

[_Darth J]

I know I have asked it before, but I still want to know why Joseph Smith didn't use the seer stone to find the lost 116 pages.

<putting on apologist hat> This is easy. Lucy Harris burned the 116 pages so there was nothing to find. Oh, and don't even think about arguing that this is inconsistent with the story given in D&C 10 (i.e., evil men would alter the words of the manuscript) because, if you didn't know this already, various apologetic theories do not need to be consistent with each other - e.g., loose translation and Hebraisms. </apologist>

How could Joseph Smith have known that if he didn't even try to use the seer stone?

By the way, the whole thing about evil men altering the pages to look different if Joseph tried to re-translate the Book of Lehi sure looks a whole lot like an admission that he knew the words would be different if he tried to do it again, doesn't it? Kind of a pre-emptive strike in case the 116 pages ever showed up?

Don't you think Martin Harris could figure out if someone had altered his own handwriting on the manuscript for the 116 pages?

[_Runtu]

How could Joseph Smith have known that if he didn't even try to use the seer stone?

By the way, the whole thing about evil men altering the pages to look different if Joseph tried to re-translate the Book of Lehi sure looks a whole lot like an admission that he knew the words would be different if he tried to do it again, doesn't it? Kind of a pre-emptive strike in case the 116 pages ever showed up?

Don't you think Martin Harris could figure out if someone had altered his own handwriting on the manuscript for the 116 pages?

What this also shows is that Joseph didn't actually believe he could find lost items using the seer stone; otherwise, he would have at least made an attempt to find the lost manuscript with the stone.

[_Fence Sitter]

By the way, the whole thing about evil men altering the pages to look different if Joseph tried to re-translate the Book of Lehi sure looks a whole lot like an admission that he knew the words would be different if he tried to do it again, doesn't it? Kind of a pre-emptive strike in case the 116 pages ever showed up?

Don't you think Martin Harris could figure out if someone had altered his own handwriting on the manuscript for the 116 pages?

While the 116 lost pages story is highly suspect, I believe Martin Harris could be convinced of anything.

[_Runtu]

While the 116 lost pages story is highly suspect, I believe Martin Harris could be convinced of anything.

Yep, as long as he heard it from a deer.

[_Darth J]

While the 116 lost pages story is highly suspect, I believe Martin Harris could be convinced of anything.

Yep, as long as he heard it from a deer.

From what I hear, Martin Harris was dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.

[_dblagent007]

How could Joseph Smith have known that if he didn't even try to use the seer stone?

<apologist hat on again> That was one of the rumors going around at the time so that's how he knew.

By the way, the whole thing about evil men altering the pages to look different if Joseph tried to re-translate the Book of Lehi sure looks a whole lot like an admission that he knew the words would be different if he tried to do it again, doesn't it? Kind of a pre-emptive strike in case the 116 pages ever showed up?

Yes, but this fits in nicely with the loose translation theory (see Brant Gardner). Joseph and god knew the translation wouldn't match because Joseph was given impressions and left to his own devices to produce the actual text, which is why so much of the Bible ended up in the Book of Mormon.

Don't you think Martin Harris could figure out if someone had altered his own handwriting on the manuscript for the 116 pages?

These evil men were master forgers - think Mark Hoffman. Their plan was to take the 116 pages and change them by rewriting the entire manuscript in what looked like Martin Harris's handwriting.

These guys were so evil that they KNEW from the get go that Joseph Smith could reproduce the manuscript verbatim. Most run-of-the-mill skeptical types would simply be satisfied to take the manuscript and see if Joseph could reproduce it again. If he did, then they would believe his claim to be a prophet (or that he had another copy hidden away somewhere). Not these guys. These guys were so evil that even though they KNEW without any doubt that Joseph could retranslate the pages, they still went ahead and altered the words. Obviously, these men are now sons of perdition.

[_Darth J]

How can anyone refute the power of dblagent007 when he is wearing his mighty apologist hat (which probably has a magic rock inside)?

Although it does make you wonder how Joseph Smith came up with passages like these

Alma 31:21 Now the place was called by them Rameumptom, which, being interpreted, is the holy stand.

Ether 15:8 And it came to pass that he came to the waters of Ripliancum, which, by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all

if he was just getting impressions instead of translating written words.

[_Runtu]

How can anyone refute the power of dblagent007 when he is wearing his mighty apologist hat (which probably has a magic rock inside)?

Although it does make you wonder how Joseph Smith came up with passages like these

Alma 31:21 Now the place was called by them Rameumptom, which, being interpreted, is the holy stand.

Ether 15:8 And it came to pass that he came to the waters of Ripliancum, which, by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all

if he was just getting impressions instead of translating written words.

I'm a little embarrassed to admit this, but I once surmised that maybe Joseph was told where in the text to be completely literal in his translation, whereas most of the time he was doing a loose translation.