Aristotle Smith wrote:A clarification. I have never worked as a paid employee of CES. I was an unpaid early morning seminary teacher. That was what I meant by slave labor.
Slave labor? You could have said no. Someone put a gun to our head or kidnap your children? Do you feel this way about volunteer service where you worship now?
It's not strictly volunteer in the LDS church. There's enormous pressure to accept any and all callings, as a signifier to the tribe of your righteousness. It's not like you just go in to see the Bishop and ask to be a seminary teacher out of the goodness of your heart.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
Aristotle Smith wrote:At what point do the powers that be realize that CES, or whatever it is called nowadays, is a giant apostasy generator? Maybe not for the kids, who for the most part sleep through the entire process, but for the teachers. I myself checked out of the faith while being slave labor for CES. So did John Dehlin. So did Grant Palmer. So did Ken Clark. So did this guy.
At some point someone is going to realize they can save a bunch of money AND cut back on apostasy by simply getting rid of CES.
I don't think CES is a giant apostate generator. It is no more than anything else-hobby apologetics, researching on your own, internet message boards and such. Considering the large number of CES employees as well as part time volunteer seminary teachers in wards outside the west the numbers that leave because of CES are really small as a %.
Interestingly enough, I was also an early morning seminary teacher when my testimony evaporated. Although I was the Young Men's president too, so maybe I don't count.
"A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows." - Samuel Clemens
The name of the "king" in Facsimile No. 3 of the Book of Abraham is Isis. Yes...that is her name.
Jason Bourne wrote:Slave labor? You could have said no. Someone put a gun to our head or kidnap your children? Do you feel this way about volunteer service where you worship now?
I can understand where Aristotle is coming from. When you think that Elohim, the creator of the universe, asked you (through your bishop) to be a seminary teacher and then you find out that its all not true, you're going to feel a bit exploited. No?
Polygamy-Porter wrote: I am sure there are CES schmucks and mo'pologists who would love to see them in these literally; on their stake center lawn if not temple square..
Dear Porter,
Please fix your avatar.
Yours truly,
Zee.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)
Polygamy-Porter wrote: I am sure there are CES schmucks and mo'pologists who would love to see them in these literally; on their stake center lawn if not temple square..
Dear Porter,
Please fix your avatar.
Yours truly,
Zee.
Is it not showing up?
New name: Boaz The most viewed "ignored" poster in Shady Acres® !
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)
Jason Bourne wrote:Slave labor? You could have said no. Someone put a gun to our head or kidnap your children? Do you feel this way about volunteer service where you worship now?
Yes, the bishop not only put a gun to my head, he threatened to sodomize me with a broomstick as well.
And no, I don't feel this way about volunteer service at my current church. They generally offer adult sex toys, with lube, as part of their forced sodomization procedures. So, I figure it's all win.
Jason Bourne wrote:The only difference is now the ward early AM seminary teacher is called and sustained though they still report to the local CES full time employee coordinator. Reimbursements are the same as well. Interestingly almost every volunteer local seminary teacher I know has loved doing it.
Bully for them.
Yes you are correct. John decided to be a really good seminary teacher he needed to study and research Church history so he would be better able to teach. As he dug into it that is when things started falling apart.
I tried to be a good seminary teacher by learning as much about the Old Testament as I could as well. That's when things started falling apart for me. In this respect, as far as can tell, Dehlin's and my story are identical. When I felt I could no longer in honesty teach what I was expected to teach I resigned.
wow AS. Having a bad day? Did my challenge about your rather jaded comment about slave labor really set you off that much? Your posts of late seem to be more and more strident. The rest of my post was simply clarifying how ward early morning seminary teachers today are called. Bully for them? Really?
