Making it less painful to leave

[_Buffalo]

In any case, only the truly brainwashed think that ex-Mormons believe deep down in the church.

"Brainwashed" is not helpful and definitely an overstatement. In my experience, those who defend the church most stridently are those who are trying desperately not to acknowledge their nagging unbelief.

You may be right.

[_Quasimodo]

The only time I went inactive was the first month of my mission. My trainer had had a run in with a daughter's father (before I came to the area), been shot in the face with a pellet gun, and was banned from attending the ward. So it was more like I was forced to become inactive. Before they raised the bar obviously......

Wow! Must be a great story behind this. Care to elaborate?

[_Jason Bourne]

I've also concluded this is a fool's errand. There is no way to make leaving the church easy. Any move in that direction would be seen by the GA's and most church members as total capitulation and surrender. When you are in a position that you think you have a complete monopoly on the authority to speak for God, there is no place to compromise. Anything else is complete crap as far as the church is concerned, and why would anyone compromise in the direction of complete crap?

One thing that would help people leave the church is if there was some sort of "good enough middle ground" people leaving could occupy. Take Joe Random Christian who decides he can't take the church he was raised in. So he decides to attend a more moderate Christian church. Now Joe Random Christian goes to his parents and tells them he won't be attending the church of his youth anymore, but he's still a Christian and regularly attends this more moderate church. The parents will be disappointed, but Joe Random's attendance at the new church will take a lot of the sting out of disclosure and smooth things over considerably. Joe Random Christian has moved into a "good enough middle ground."

Nothing like this exists for the Mormon church. Out is out, and out is evil. From my experience I've had people react even more negatively when I mention that I attend a Christian church after I tell them I'm no longer Mormon. In other words, not only is there no "good enough middle ground" anything else is often seen as even worse than just doing nothing.

Now see AS, I agree with pretty much all you said above. A Christian that say attends the Methodist Church can easily move to a similar denomination with little to no repurcussions. Why they can even move from a more mainstream denomination to a conservative nondenominational EV type congregation with little to no complaints from family or friends. Though I do know a few EVs that hash few issues with some friends when they decided to leave a Church because of disagreements with the pastor teaching that baptism was a requirement for salvation.

But you are right. With the LDS church there is no middle ground. Think back to something Joseph Smith said when some brother told him that if he left the church he would not battle against it like some apostates were doing. He said he would move away somewhere and forget he ever heard of the Latter-day Saints. But Joseph Smith said that no that would not happen. He said that when someone leaves the Church they leave neutral ground forever and that they will thirst for his blood and the blood of the saints.

Well it was something to that effect but don't quote me exactly. The whole point is if you leave you are flawed because you have abandoned God's kingdom.

That said I admire John for being able to assist some who want to stay figure out a way to do it. And now to try to help others leave more easily, well his intentions are good. I admire the guy. He has more guts than I do which may not be saying much.

[_Jason Bourne]

The pain of leaving is purely a function of knowing one is rebelling against the truth that one innately believes. But speaking of making it easy, write me a letter......

Ehxhibit A. I was actually going to comment in my post above that BC was a fine example of this undercurrent. I forgot but here he is doing this for me. Not all are as strident. But he exemplifies the undertone.

[_Runtu]

Ehxhibit A. I was actually going to comment in my post above that BC was a fine example of this undercurrent. I forgot but here he is doing this for me. Not all are as strident. But he exemplifies the undertone.

Just another reminder of what dogmatism does to a person.

[_zeezrom]

Aristotle,

I will admit that I'm one apostate that knows very little about other Christian churches. The Mormon church might make it hard to leave but they make it even harder to join other churches. I may get there someday, AS. It may take me 10x longer than it took you, but I just might. I haven't given up on Christianity yet! I have almost given up but not all the way.

The problem is, I'm surrounded by Facebook friends that say things like, "I wish Jesus would run for President because I'd definitely vote for him!"

[_sethpayne]

If it were me, I'd focus on the apostates themselves and how they can maintain some kind of relationship with their Mormon families and friends.

Or maybe find a way for those who no longer believe to still feel welcome?

I have to say my ward does a great job with this. I have home teaching assignments and, due to my heterodoxy, the Bishop actually asked me to attend High Priests and said "make sure you stir things up in there." They even invite me to teach once in a while but always assign topics they know I will be comfortable speaking about: the love of God, the moral example of Jesus, etc....

I am the youngest guy in there by at least 30 years most Sundays but I feel completely involved and no one, with the exception of one EQP, has every done or said anything to make me feel unwelcome. In fact, I feel MORE a part of the ward than ever before because instead of attending because I "have" to as part of my duty as a good Church Member, I actually *choose* to go because Church provides me with opportunities to serve and it give me a spiritual boost.

I may have abandoned the Church's truth claims but I will never abandon it's people.

My brother holds a high position in his Stake, my Mom (thankfully i'm about 50 lbs lighter now than what is shown in the pictures in that link) is Relief Society president ..... you get the picture .... and they treat me as they always have: with true love and kindness. Would my Mom like me to believe again? Absolutely. But she knows that while I've left the truth claims behind, I've tried to hold on to the values of hard work, honesty, and charity instilled in my by her example and the Church.