Mitt Romney- Draft Dodger?

[_Chap]

Less than 1% of Americans ever serve in the military, so I'm not sure what's the point of asking, with heavy insinuation, whether a given politico (or their family) is serving/has served. Most people will answer no. We have operated an all-volunteer force for like the last 30 or 40 years, and most people simply aren't interested, willing, or qualified.

If he's talking smack about the military and hasn't served then it's game on, but if his only provocation is he's running for president, I don't really agree with this line of criticism.

ps: I really dislike Romney a lot, and the longer and nastier this Republitard primary drags on, the greater this dislike is becoming. I almost want to pray and sacrifice to the Flying Spaghetti Monster than Rick Santorum or Newt win the nomination, just to ensure someone completely unelectable faces Obama in the Fall.

I gather from his voting record and policies he's a Hawk. I think if you're a politcian and you're going to exercise deadly force through political measures then you have an obligation to have experienced the sacrifice people make when placed in harm's way. Clearly we can see what a disaster it is when you have an unqualified and protected President decide to waste our treasurey and spill our blood on a nonsense foreign war.

- VRDRC

Well, even if we don't think that a President should not be able to declare war unless he has performed military service, some comparisons are interesting.

In ancient Athens, every citizen served in the military - as a rower, light infantry or heavy infantry according to the level of equipment they could afford. If you voted for war in the Assembly, you knew that you or your son would have to do the fighting.

In ancient Rome, the upper classes who aimed at the Senate followed a pre-planned career that included a substantial stint of military service, without which their hopes of election would not have been good.

In imperial Britain, the upper classes took it as quite normal that one or more of the sons of any considerable family would serve in the Army or Navy. Such was the enthusiasm for military service at the time that if we look at the officers who commanded at the battle of Waterloo, and who fell in large numbers around the Duke of Wellington under Napoleon's artillery barrage, many of them had actually paid to be there, under the system of purchase of military rank that obtained at the time.

Now the richest and most militarily powerful country in the world has a ruling class whose sons and daughters are far less likely to be soldiers than they are to be lawyers, and whose military is increasingly filled by those from near the bottom of the economic heap.

That is not a healthy state of things.

[_harmony]

In imperial Britain, the upper classes took it as quite normal that one or more of the sons of any considerable family would serve in the Army or Navy. Such was the enthusiasm for military service at the time that if we look at the officers who commanded at the battle of Waterloo, and who fell in large numbers around the Duke of Wellington under Napoleon's artillery barrage, many of them had actually paid to be there, under the system of purchase of military rank that obtained at the time.

Now the richest and most militarily powerful country in the world has a ruling class whose sons and daughters are far less likely to be soldiers than they are to be lawyers, and whose military is increasingly filled by those from near the bottom of the economic heap.

That is not a healthy state of things.

It's healthier now? When it's poor men's sons who die at the behest of a rich man?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I think it'd be nice to know, on a very simple level, if someone who is going to be a Hawk has walked the walk while talking the talk. Mitt Romney clearly avoided war, and his sons are doing the same. Even more telling it'd be nice if someone who has been there and done that might reconsider his stance on warmongering and instead choose to divert resources toward American nation building.

I'd feel better if our street thugs could read and write instead of crapping billions on a country and a culture that can never be progressive.

- VRDRC

[_Yahoo Bot]

I think it'd be nice to know, on a very simple level, if someone who is going to be a Hawk has walked the walk while talking the talk. Mitt Romney clearly avoided war, and his sons are doing the same. Even more telling it'd be nice if someone who has been there and done that might reconsider his stance on warmongering and instead choose to divert resources toward American nation building.

I'd feel better if our street thugs could read and write instead of crapping billions on a country and a culture that can never be progressive.

- VRDRC

Somehow I doubt you served in the military. I don't think much of folk who demand that persons serve in the military who have never done so.

I was pleased as punch when my draft number was higher than what Selective Service took in my year for Vietnam. War is a rich man's game which calls upon the poor to die for them.

Obama's position on defense is little different than the GOP's, at least as implemented by both. What they say is somewhat different. We are still in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[_honorentheos]

When I served in the Army, the large majority of servicemen and women trended conservative in their political views. in my opinion, it's one of the weaknesses of the liberal side of politics in our country. I've had many friends from later life and associates cringe at the idea of serving in a "Republican War" as some paint it. I'm not a fan of political polemics and think it is one of many areas the left could take a page from Al Gore who volunteered to serve in the Vietnam War.

But what I find interesting is that I don't know a single conservative today in a close, personal way who has served in the military or who's children of service age made that choice. I've rarely been as angry with someone as I was with a strongly conservative co-worker who talked about wimpy liberals who were anti-war along with the importance of being willing to sacrifice for our country a mere week after having shared in conversation how hard he worked to save money for his son's schooling so he wouldn't have to serve.

I have no problem with people who choose not to serve. But not when they make it part of their standard for patriotism.

[_honorentheos]

If you're not familiar with him, I think Wes Moore is one of the people to watch in our country who has welded the best of military service with social concern associated with liberal politics. His book, The Other Wes Moore, should be read by every parent and older school-age kid in my opinion.

http://theotherwesmoore.com/about-the-author/

[_Chap]

In imperial Britain, the upper classes took it as quite normal that one or more of the sons of any considerable family would serve in the Army or Navy. Such was the enthusiasm for military service at the time that if we look at the officers who commanded at the battle of Waterloo, and who fell in large numbers around the Duke of Wellington under Napoleon's artillery barrage, many of them had actually paid to be there, under the system of purchase of military rank that obtained at the time.

Now the richest and most militarily powerful country in the world has a ruling class whose sons and daughters are far less likely to be soldiers than they are to be lawyers, and whose military is increasingly filled by those from near the bottom of the economic heap.

That is not a healthy state of things.

It's healthier now? When it's poor men's sons who die at the behest of a rich man?

I think it was clear, was it not, that when I said

Now the richest and most militarily powerful country in the world has a ruling class whose sons and daughters are far less likely to be soldiers than they are to be lawyers, and whose military is increasingly filled by those from near the bottom of the economic heap.

"Now" meant "now in the USA"? And I said that this is not a healthy state of things.

Wasn't that pretty clear? Here and now in the USA, poor peoples' children do nearly all the dying while rich people who have neither fought themselves or have children likely to fight do nearly all the deciding.

[_harmony]

Here and now in the USA, poor peoples' children do nearly all the dying while rich people who have neither fought themselves or have children likely to fight do nearly all the deciding.

Then we agree. My dad, my brother, and my youngest son served in the military. Guess that makes us part of the poor.

[_Chap]

Here and now in the USA, poor peoples' children do nearly all the dying while rich people who have neither fought themselves or have children likely to fight do nearly all the deciding.

Then we agree. My dad, my brother, and my youngest son served in the military. Guess that makes us part of the poor.

That I can't say. But although I do not have the statistics to hand, I think that on that basis I might bet that your family is not a very rich one.

[_harmony]

That I can't say. But although I do not have the statistics to hand, I think that on that basis I might bet that your family is not a very rich one.

Nope. But then, all of mine enlisted and weren't drafted. There's something to be said for planning one's life. Being jerked into something like military service when you don't want to go is enough to make a guy angry... or move to Canada.