Drifting wrote:Well D&C 132 specifies the doctrine of multiple wives as a requirement for entry into the CK at least that's what it meant originally. Now it just means to be sealed to one woman. So we can deduce from the multiple interpretations of this scripture that there will be at least two variants of family in the CK.
I am not sure how it is you can equate "entrance requirement" with what the "basic family unit" will "look like" in the CK. So, the implication, or rather, the conclusion that one must have X-number of wives to enter the CK and therefore one will maintain X, or X+1, or X-3 wives upon being in the CK is seemingly unfounded. The concept of what the "next level" of marriage is, with regards to the CK, is rather speculative and possibly assumptive on your part.
Drifting wrote:And as for the family unit described in the Proclamation being only applicable to life on earth...The proclamation addresses our relationship to God and the importance of marriage and family relationships in this life and in eternity.(Mormon.org)
I am not sure that it addresses the role of "family relationships" for eternity, but rather the importance of them to our eternity. Rather, I am not familiar with any doctrine that states exactly what happens to our families and our family relationships after we enter the CK.
Well, I think given the fact that people are sealed together for time and all eternity it is fair to assume that if you are sealed to numerous wives you will have them for time and all eternity. Perhaps you should attend the temple a bit more and pay more attention to what is said.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
gdemetz, thank you for providing the biggest chuckle I have enjoyed in "discussing" with you. The gyrations you will resort to to fit scripture to your position is indeed laughable and you preface your ludicrous response with a personal attack my intelligence. I know that I am wasting my energy on you but what part of the verse gives you a problem? Your claim that there is a difference between "receiving the Holy Spirit" and the gift of the Holy Spirit but the very verse in question puts the lie to that claim. Let me repeat it slowly...."They have received the Holy Spirit JUST AS WE HAVE" So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ." Now any way you look at it, they had the same Holy Spirit as Peter and the other disciples, and they received it in exactly the same way (no laying on of hands in this case because the apostles didn't receive it by the laying on of hands at Pentecost and we are told they received it in the same way)...ALL THIS BEFORE BAPTISM. You really don't need to answer this post, gedemetz...I think any honest reader of this thread can see the paucity of your argument.
Dumb again Albion! Do you remember all those references I gave you that talked about being born again?!? They referred to being born of the water (baptism) and born of the spirit (the layhing on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost)! Even if someone has been led by the Spirit of God to be baptized, and they do not receive baptism into the church, THEY NEED TO BE BAPTIZED AGAIN AND ALSO RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST BY THE LAYING ON OF HANDS (see Acts 19:1-6)!!!
I will give you another scripture to show this, but I won't get my hopes up since you apparently have not been able to understand even much simpler teachings!!!
"And when Simon saw that through laying on of apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money."
Even Simon could see this, but you evangelicals are blinder than he was! It was the common practice in the primitive church to baptize (born of the water) and then give the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands (born of the Spirit)! This is what Christ was trying to teach Nicodemus!!! What good would it do if one was led by the Holy Ghost to the apostles, but then they would say to the apostles that they were evangelicals, and that they had already received the Holy Ghost which led them there, but they had already made a profession of faith and they didn't need to be to born again and baptized and receive the laying on of hands, etc. Could you imagine what the apostles might say to them?!?!?
"But the pharisees and lawyers {and evangelicals} rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him."
I gave you many quotes already from not only the scriptures, but also from many reputable non Mormon theological writings, and once again you are just giving me your brainwashed, brain dead, evangelical hogwash! Why is it that all through the New Testament the saints baptized and then laid hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost (born of the water and Spirit), Albion?!? You need to rewrite the scriptures to change all that and have them do alter calls instead!!!
Hebrews 6:2 states the true doctrine of Christ!
"Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment."
You need to change that in your evangelical version to:
"Ya'll ferget about all them baptisms, and them layin' on hands, and all that kind of stuff, and jes walk down this here isle and come on up to the front fer our altar call and jes invite Chirst to come into your old heart and you will be saved ferever!" Halelujah!
You don't need any priesthood, baptism, nor nothin' else! That there one thing will take care of everthing! It's a sure nuf one time cure all! Halelujay! Can I hear an Amen?!?
Again, you avoid the verse I quoted. No where have I said that the Holy Spirit cannot be conferred by the laying on of hands but as this verse clearly states, not always. Things just don't follow always the legalistic flow of Mormonism. Anyway, the discussion is moot, since you lose the debate by making it personal as you usually do when you have nothing else to say.
I never said that! The Holy Ghost can come to anyone it wants to come to and inspire. The Book of Mormon tells how the Spirit inspired Columbus to come to the new world. However, Columbus did not have the gift of the Holy Ghost, which would entitle him to constant revelation as long as he were worthy of it! Why do you think that the apostles bothered to lay hands for this gift in the first place?! Think!! Read Hebrews 6:1-2 Albion, about baptism and the laying on of hands being the doctrine of Christ! That is the doctrine of Christ, Albion, not alter calls!!!
So will there be single people in the top level of the CK as well as monogamous and polygamous families?
I don't know what heaven is like. Section 132 does not mandate plural marriage it simply allows it, the new and everlasting covenant is marriage which includes monogamy.
Sorry, but the 'new and everlasting covenant' was polygamy. I think these verses make that very clear.
1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines—
2 Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter.
3 Therefore, prepare thy heart to receive and obey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same.
4 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Yes, drifting, IF it is revealed to them, then they must live it if they have been given that authority. However, to those who it wasn't revealed to and/or weren't given the authority, or because of persecution were not able to live that principle, that is a different matter. However, as Brigham Young stated, we must be polygamists at least in our hearts, for the highest heaven will be full of polygamists! The chuch knows what it is doing, and the last thing the church needs is for someone like you to advise it!
gdemetz wrote:Yes, drifting, IF it is revealed to them, then they must live it if they have been given that authority. However, to those who it wasn't revealed to and/or weren't given the authority, or because of persecution were not able to live that principle, that is a different matter. However, as Brigham Young stated, we must be polygamists at least in our hearts, for the highest heaven will be full of polygamists! The chuch knows what it is doing, and the last thing the church needs is for someone like you to advise it!
Christians are part of the Universal CHURCH, and as such are part of the body, the bride of Christ. I would hope none would be polygamistic in their heart. They should be not double, triple, etc., minded... But keep their mind and eyes on Christ. All christians are brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, in Christ. It really seems Mormons are too into themselves and their "god" unit in eternity to think of anyone but themselves.
