christians do you really believe

[_Rambo]

Thanks AS this helps me understand christians a little bit more.

[_thews]

that if I don't except your definition of Jesus that I won't be saved?

no

Also what about the people that have never had a chance to hear of Jesus or the Bible on this life. What happens to them? I know this is a Mormon question and they have the "answer" for it but I can't find any christians that have a good answer.

Just because one defines themselves as "Christian" doesn't mean they have to also follow a specific brand of Christianity. To answer your question, I am a Christian because I believe Jesus Christ was God, but I also don't discount God was also Buddah. If life is a lesson to the soul, this all-or-nothing approach to religion boxes one in with the given stereotype. I don't believe in hell, because the entire concept doesn't make sense, so in my opinion no one goes to hell.

in the earth being 6000 years old?

Moot. I had a friend ask me whether I believed that God planted the fossils just to F with us. I thought about it, and concluded it was a possibility. In this scenario, who was technically "right" in their beliefs... the Atheist or the Christian? If the answer is it didn't matter, then there's your answer.

man being around for 6000 years?

see above.

a global flood?

No... it's a metaphor.

that you need to be baptized?

no

that sex before marriage is a sin?

no. Regarding sex, gay Mormons are really screwed aren't they? What an evil demon the Mormon God is, to make gay people, then condemn them for how he made them.

[_KevinSim]

It is a possibility that every person on Earth might be saved, Jesus' work makes that a possibility. But I do believe in libertarian free will, which means that not everyone is guaranteed to make that choice. Going to hell will be an individual's choice, not God's. This is what C.S. Lewis was getting at when he said that the doors to hell are locked from the inside.

Of course even though it's not guaranteed that everyone will "make that choice," everyone still could make that choice.

Aristotle, are you saying that you simply don't know whether or not everyone will escape Hell? That it's possible that everyone (including Judas Iscariot, of whom Jesus Himself said, "it had been good for that man if he had not been born") might repent and therefore make it into Heaven, but that it's also possible (as far as you know) that there might be some people who end up spending the rest of eternity in Hell?

Also, how intense is the suffering people go through in Hell? Is it true for every person that ends up in Hell that "it had been good for that" person if s/he "had not been born"?

[_Aristotle Smith]

Aristotle, are you saying that you simply don't know whether or not everyone will escape Hell?

I suspect that not everyone will escape Hell, but it's not my decision to make.

That it's possible that everyone (including Judas Iscariot, of whom Jesus Himself said, "it had been good for that man if he had not been born") might repent and therefore make it into Heaven, but that it's also possible (as far as you know) that there might be some people who end up spending the rest of eternity in Hell?

See previous response.

Also, how intense is the suffering people go through in Hell?

I have no idea what Hell is like.

Is it true for every person that ends up in Hell that "it had been good for that" person if s/he "had not been born"?

See previous.

Also, could you please stop using bold italics? Please?

[_KevinSim]

no. Regarding sex, gay Mormons are really screwed aren't they? What an evil demon the Mormon God is, to make gay people, then condemn them for how he made them.

It's the Biblical Christian God, not the Mormon one, that condemns people for things they have no control over. The Mormon God takes all things into consideration, and judges each person accordingly.

Assuming, of course, that He really judges people at all. I am of the opinion that the real harsh judge for each individual is the individual, and that God is more a spiritual physician, treating people for spiritual diseases, than He is a ruthless magistrate. Hell is not so much a place of torment as it is a state of mind; people are in Hell because their consciences put them in Hell, and because those people are reluctant to take God's medicine that will cure them; and they will only stay in Hell until they can bring themselves to accept that medicine.

I'm also not convinced that God did consciously make gay people. I tend to think God started the Universe going, but I'm aware of no compelling argument that God can afford to micromanage the Universe so completely that He can determine who's going to be gay and who's going to be straight.

[_KevinSim]

I suspect that not everyone will escape Hell, but it's not my decision to make.

Aristotle, let's assume for a moment that there is someone (like Judas Iscariot, for example) who is not going to escape Hell. Why doesn't God, at some point in the future, cause that someone to cease to exist? What good does God accomplish by letting that someone keep existing, if all s/he is going to do is suffer in Hell?

[_MCB]

What good does God accomplish by letting that someone keep existing, if all s/he is going to do is suffer in Hell?

I have played with that concept, but I don't consider it to be relevant to how I live my life, so I just let it be.

[_thews]

no. Regarding sex, gay Mormons are really screwed aren't they? What an evil demon the Mormon God is, to make gay people, then condemn them for how he made them.

It's the Biblical Christian God, not the Mormon one, that condemns people for things they have no control over. The Mormon God takes all things into consideration, and judges each person accordingly.

I'm glad you acknowledge that the Mormon God and Christian God are different. You can be a openly gay Christian. You cannot be an openly gay Mormon.

Assuming, of course, that He really judges people at all. I am of the opinion that the real harsh judge for each individual is the individual, and that God is more a spiritual physician, treating people for spiritual diseases, than He is a ruthless magistrate. Hell is not so much a place of torment as it is a state of mind; people are in Hell because their consciences put them in Hell, and because those people are reluctant to take God's medicine that will cure them; and they will only stay in Hell until they can bring themselves to accept that medicine.

ok

I'm also not convinced that God did consciously make gay people. I tend to think God started the Universe going, but I'm aware of no compelling argument that God can afford to micromanage the Universe so completely that He can determine who's going to be gay and who's going to be straight.

What God wants, God gets. God doesn't make mistakes, but Mormonism teaches its members that God screws up all the time, which is why their doctrine has to change. To say God didn't consciously make gay people is a ridiculous position.

[_madeleine]

I do not know how Christ will save non-Christians, but the Catholic Church makes it clear that God can do it. God desires everyone to be saved and has the power to save everyone, so obviously God can do what he desires whether or not we understand it. We at least can hope for the salvation of all, but I can't control whether or not an individual person actually turns to God. Catholics believe a person has to come to God before death. What happens in those last moments between life and death is a mystery -- some have speculated that Christ comes to everyone just prior to death with one last opportunity to follow Him whether they have accepted Him or not up to that point. If a person simply has the desire to be saved at death and turns to Christ, Christ will do the rest. I suspect it is possible that some might reject that invitation, but I'm not sure why they would. That doesn't mean they receive a get out of jail free card -- all of us will have to go through purification to the extent we haven't prepared ourselves to enter God's presence. I actually tend to believe in Christian Universalism, but my belief is more of a hope than a certainty.

The rest of your questions don't cause me much concern except I do believe that sex is meant to be limited to relations in a marriage between one woman and one man. Most of us fall short of the ideal at one time or another.

:) I agree with you. I'll only add, Hope for a Christian is not the sort of hope that is wishing for something to happen that may or may not. Christian Hope has a name, Jesus Christ, Who is the sort of Hope that is trustworthy and sure.

The opening paragraph of Pope Benedict XVI's encyclical "Spe Salvi":

“SPE SALVI facti sumus”—in hope we were saved, says Saint Paul to the Romans, and likewise to us (Rom 8:24). According to the Christian faith, “redemption”—salvation—is not simply a given. Redemption is offered to us in the sense that we have been given hope, trustworthy hope, by virtue of which we can face our present: the present, even if it is arduous, can be lived and accepted if it leads towards a goal, if we can be sure of this goal, and if this goal is great enough to justify the effort of the journey. Now the question immediately arises: what sort of hope could ever justify the statement that, on the basis of that hope and simply because it exists, we are redeemed? And what sort of certainty is involved here?

[_Ceeboo]

Hey Rambo

that if I don't except your definition of Jesus that I won't be saved?

No Sir!

Also what about the people that have never had a chance to hear of Jesus or the Bible on this life. What happens to them?

I believe that there will be a plethora of people in heaven who had never heard of Jesus, or the Bible, while they lived their life on this earth.

I know this is a Mormon question and they have the "answer" for it but I can't find any christians that have a good answer.

I would suggest that having a "good answer" is heavily dependent upon and greatly influenced by the personal bias, beliefs, and opinions of the particular ears who hear an answer.

in the earth being 6000 years old?

I consider my beloved young earth Christian friends my brother's and sister's in Christ and although I take no firm stand on the age of the earth either way, I find their positions to be extremely fascinating, deeply interesting, and at the very least worthy of strong consideration.

man being around for 6000 years?

See last answer

a global flood?

I do believe in a catastrophic global flood.

that you need to be baptized?

If you are suggesting that you need to be baptized to be saved....... then no. I believe that God (Jesus is God in my opinion) has and will continue to shower us all with his enormous love and grace and that there will be loads and loads of us broken humans littered all over the KIngdom of Heaven.

that sex before marriage is a sin?

Is there sex after marriage?


If I may add:
It is my opinion that we don't/can't earn our way into the Kingdom of God. We are all (on at least some levels) broken sinners and deeply in need to repent.....But it is through God (Jesus in my opinion) that we all might find our way, by His Grace and by His Love, HOME!

Peace,
Ceeboo