Hamblin's Moderated Blog

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_lulu
_Emeritus
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:08 am

Re: Hamblin's Moderated Blog

Post by _lulu »

why me wrote:
LDSToronto wrote:
I don't see what would warrant Church discipline, unless they can be seen to tarnish the good name of the Church, but even then, what would the charge be? Apostasy? I'm not so sure.

More likely, perhaps more scary, is the damage to Dan's academic reputation. I am not sure how BYU works, but I can't imagine his reaction and the reaction of his goon squad bodes well for his post in the Department of Asian and Near Eastern Languages.


Is it against the rules to protest a firing by email? And to disagree with it? Those responsible for this behavior of firing someone by email should get the discipline.


Keep preachin'

You're doing God's rightous work, wink, wink.
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.
_Tobin
_Emeritus
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Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:01 pm

Re: Hamblin's Moderated Blog

Post by _Tobin »

Actually, I agree with the firing too. However, I do agree that firing someone via e-mail is pathetic, but understandable. Some people can't handle conflict and would rather avoid it at all costs. Those people should not be in-charge though and it doesn't speak well of Bradford as a capable administrator.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_LDSToronto
_Emeritus
Posts: 2515
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:11 am

Re: Hamblin's Moderated Blog

Post by _LDSToronto »

why me wrote:
LDSToronto wrote:
I don't see what would warrant Church discipline, unless they can be seen to tarnish the good name of the Church, but even then, what would the charge be? Apostasy? I'm not so sure.

More likely, perhaps more scary, is the damage to Dan's academic reputation. I am not sure how BYU works, but I can't imagine his reaction and the reaction of his goon squad bodes well for his post in the Department of Asian and Near Eastern Languages.


Is it against the rules to protest a firing by email? And to disagree with it? Those responsible for this behavior of firing someone by email should get the discipline.


Yes, keep chewing on that bone.

H.
"Others cannot endure their own littleness unless they can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level."
~ Ernest Becker
"Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death."
~ Simone de Beauvoir
_why me
_Emeritus
Posts: 9589
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:19 pm

Re: Hamblin's Moderated Blog

Post by _why me »

lulu wrote:Keep preachin' it why me.

I won't rest until the the WSJ and WashPost political reporters pick it up and start writing about it in their Mitt stories.


I hope that they do. BYU professor fired by email when away lecturing and giving a tour of the holy land. It is a good story. And true. This behavior should not happen in a BYU institution.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_LDSToronto
_Emeritus
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Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:11 am

Re: Hamblin's Moderated Blog

Post by _LDSToronto »

I suspect Dan wasn't totally caught unaware and that prior discussions had taken place.

H.
"Others cannot endure their own littleness unless they can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level."
~ Ernest Becker
"Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death."
~ Simone de Beauvoir
_why me
_Emeritus
Posts: 9589
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:19 pm

Re: Hamblin's Moderated Blog

Post by _why me »

Tobin wrote:Actually, I agree with the firing too. However, I do agree that firing someone via e-mail is pathetic, but understandable. Some people can't handle conflict and would rather avoid it at all costs. Those people should not be in-charge though and it doesn't speak well of Bradford as a capable administrator.


And yet, the conflict becomes worse, especially for a church institution where brotherly and sisterly love should be the foundation for any such dismissal.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_why me
_Emeritus
Posts: 9589
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:19 pm

Re: Hamblin's Moderated Blog

Post by _why me »

LDSToronto wrote:I suspect Dan wasn't totally caught unaware and that prior discussions had taken place.

H.


He was completely unaware of the possible firing by email. Lets just say it was a shock and awe experience. A product of Naomi Klein's disaster capitalism strategy.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_Tobin
_Emeritus
Posts: 8417
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:01 pm

Re: Hamblin's Moderated Blog

Post by _Tobin »

why me wrote:
Tobin wrote:Actually, I agree with the firing too. However, I do agree that firing someone via e-mail is pathetic, but understandable. Some people can't handle conflict and would rather avoid it at all costs. Those people should not be in-charge though and it doesn't speak well of Bradford as a capable administrator.
And yet, the conflict becomes worse, especially for a church institution where brotherly and sisterly love should be the foundation for any such dismissal.
There is nothing wrong with conflict. If DCP was a money changer, I would have thrown him out of the temple too.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_Aristotle Smith
_Emeritus
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Re: Hamblin's Moderated Blog

Post by _Aristotle Smith »

Doctor Scratch wrote:I'm becoming increasingly convinced that the only thing that will shake some sense into them is formal Church discipline: disfellowshipping or excommunication. They won't listen to anything short of that. So I guess the question is: Was the Church more interested in doing this mainly for PR reasons--i.e., so that they could publicly divorce themselves from the "classic-FARMS" rhetoric? Or are they genuinely interested in curtailing the rhetoric?


There is another way, at least for some of them: termination of employment at BYU. Since BYU doesn't have an official tenure system, and since these guys are probably not the most popular on campus, termination is probably just as easy and will result in less bad press. Further, there are ready-made excuses for termination: lack of publication in peer reviewed journals and insubordination surrounding what BYU sees as a purely administrative decision (the dismantling of classic FARMS).

I'm not saying I agree with that option, but it is an option. And if I were those guys, I would make sure the resume is polished up and start calling in favors.
_lulu
_Emeritus
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:08 am

Re: Hamblin's Moderated Blog

Post by _lulu »

why me wrote:
lulu wrote:Keep preachin' it why me.

I won't rest until the the WSJ and WashPost political reporters pick it up and start writing about it in their Mitt stories.


I hope that they do. BYU professor fired by email when away lecturing and giving a tour of the holy land. It is a good story. And true. This behavior should not happen in a BYU institution.


Here's some emails.

Do the church a favor and write to them.

washwire@wsj.com

john.harwood@wsj.com

postnow@washpost.com

You'll be helping to build the kingdom

Please post copies here.
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.
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