Cutting Edge Research?

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_Droopy
_Emeritus
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Re: Cutting Edge Research?

Post by _Droopy »

I'm just curious. They asked us to provide examples of ad hominem and/or problematic material in FAIR/FARMS and we gave them dozens of examples.


I'm not so interested in FAIR at the moment as I am in FARMS/NMI. Could you refresh my memory again and provide so ad hominem abuse from Daniel from some of his work at FARMS or NMI?

Could you also post some excerpts from Greg Smith's 100 page critique of John Dehlin?

Thanks.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Droopy
_Emeritus
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Re: Cutting Edge Research?

Post by _Droopy »

Blixa wrote:Using the larger academic sense of the word, I think "cutting edge research" is incorrect. But with the caveats Aristotle implied, I guess that is what it means.

I suspect that translated it really means "quick retorts to 'criticism' with enough compound/complex sentences and name-dropping to appear learned and thus flatter/satisfy an unscholarly audience."


It probably has reference to subjects of which you have little or no knowledge, such as archeology, comparative religion, myth and folklore, biblical studies, the study of ancient religious texts (Bible, extra-canonical texts (Old Testament pseudepigrapha, New Testament apocrypha, Christina gnostic texts, the Scrolls etc), and other similar areas of concentration.

Good scholarly research is good scholarly research and is useful to both secular and believing audiences. I have every hope that what is now emerging as Mormon Studies will be just that.


That's an assumption, an assumption that good research always implies cogent conclusions and an intellectually honest and bias-free approach regarding the subject of the research, as well as what counts as "good research" in a given area. No area of research is free of bias, and the modern academy, within the humanities and social sciences, has been severely corrupted and intellectual compromised by ideological agendas and intellectual faddism.

Because of the poor state of American education, though, many people are not equipped with a basic historical understanding, nor a very strong set of reading skills, nor much education in conceptual thought (philosophy, critical theory, etc).


Perhaps you meant to say critical thinking? Critical theory is not about the disciplines of conceptual thought (though it requires them) but an ideology, or body of allied ideologies, embedded within academia.

I can understand why some may fear that the best of Mormon Studies may be inaccessible to the average member. But instead of pandering to that problem, a scholarly Mormon publication could do the church a real service by taking on the very serious task of education, indeed fulfilling the educational mandate that has been present throughout all of Mormon history. It would be a very different kind of publication than what currently exists and a challenging project to bring off. But it would be a very valuable one.


This all, again, depends upon what one means by "education" and what one thinks its purpose is and to what ends it is to be put.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
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Re: Cutting Edge Research?

Post by _Kishkumen »

Droopy wrote:Could you also post some excerpts from Greg Smith's 100 page critique of John Dehlin?

Thanks.


I am happy I can't Droopy. No BYU journal should publish a 100 page critique of a member of the LDS Church who has not been disciplined by the Church.

That's simply wrong.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Droopy
_Emeritus
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Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: Cutting Edge Research?

Post by _Droopy »

Kishkumen wrote:
Droopy wrote:Could you also post some excerpts from Greg Smith's 100 page critique of John Dehlin?

Thanks.


I am happy I can't Droopy. No BYU journal should publish a 100 page critique of a member of the LDS Church who has not been disciplined by the Church.

That's simply wrong.



I'm not going to post that JPG of the white flag again. But its the thought that counts.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
Posts: 21373
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Cutting Edge Research?

Post by _Kishkumen »

Droopy wrote:I'm not going to post that JPG of the white flag again. But its the thought that counts.


Hey, Droopy, I can't help the fact that you belong to a rogue element in the Church that has usurped priesthood authority to stand as accusers of members over whom it has no authority.

Yes, you should fly a white flag, since you haven't got a leg to stand on here.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Droopy
_Emeritus
Posts: 9826
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: Cutting Edge Research?

Post by _Droopy »

I am happy I can't Droopy. No BYU journal should publish a 100 page critique of a member of the LDS Church who has not been disciplined by the Church.




What about a member of the Church who is in open dissent from many of its teachings and standards, and who has organized an advocacy website who's avowed purpose is to assist others in apostatizing from said Church?
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
Posts: 21373
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Cutting Edge Research?

Post by _Kishkumen »

Droopy wrote:What about a member of the Church who is in open dissent from many of its teachings and standards, and who has organized an advocacy website who's avowed purpose is to assist others in apostatizing from said Church?


Droopy, you can lie by omission, but you are still lying. You understand that, right?

And once again, what is your calling? Does it entail accusing John Dehlin before the world? Is that your stewardship, Droopy?

Please explain this to me.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Droopy
_Emeritus
Posts: 9826
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: Cutting Edge Research?

Post by _Droopy »

Kishkumen wrote:
Droopy wrote:I'm not going to post that JPG of the white flag again. But its the thought that counts.


Hey, Droopy, I can't help the fact that you belong to a rogue element in the Church that has usurped priesthood authority to stand as accusers of members over whom they have no authority.

Yes, you should fly a white flag, since you haven't got a leg to stand on here.


No authority? Well, if you mean authority to take any action in any official capacity, you are certainly correct. However, from Deacon, to Teacher, to Priest, to Elder, I took a certain oath and made certain covenants before my Father in Heaven. From Deacon to Elder, I am to:

Warn, expound, exhort, and teach...see that there is no iniquity in the church, neither hardness with each other, neither lying, backbiting, nor evil speaking...to watch over the church always, and be with and strengthen them...to preach, teach, expound, exhort...

http://www.LDS.org/scriptures/dc-testam ... ang=eng#45

No authority? Incorrect.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Droopy
_Emeritus
Posts: 9826
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: Cutting Edge Research?

Post by _Droopy »

Paul also sets the Saints a requirement that they "be ready always to give an answer to every man" that seeks to know the nature of the gospel - or to criticize, misrepresent, or manipulate its teachings for his own purposes.

And that is what I intend to do.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Droopy
_Emeritus
Posts: 9826
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: Cutting Edge Research?

Post by _Droopy »

Kishkumen wrote:
Droopy wrote:What about a member of the Church who is in open dissent from many of its teachings and standards, and who has organized an advocacy website who's avowed purpose is to assist others in apostatizing from said Church?


Droopy, you can lie by omission, but you are still lying. You understand that, right?


And how am I lying, pray tell?

And once again, what is your calling? Does it entail accusing John Dehlin before the world? Is that your stewardship, Droopy?


See above.

Now, as an aside, I should ask you, "What is John Dehlin's calling to advocate for and support apostasy from the Church of Jesus Christ?
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
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