Thought-provoking Discussion of Apologetics

[_MrStakhanovite]

Now who is there to harm you if you are zealous for what is good? But even if you should suffer for righteousness' sake, you will be blessed. Have no fear of them, nor be troubled, but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, having a good conscience, so that, when you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame. For it is better to suffer for doing good, if that should be God's will, than for doing evil.

Bold emphasis is mine, the underlined portion being: πρός ἀπολογία

Socrates made a defense, but did he honor Christ the Lord as holy in his heart before hand? No. Was that defense made done with gentleness and respect? No. The qualifications listed for this defense are linked to one's faith in Christ, suffering for the faith if needs be, and giving a reason for your hope to those who ask you.

So calling John’s defense of his organization an apologetic in the religious sense that FARMS engaged in is simply an equivocation in my book.

[_Kishkumen]

Socrates made a defense, but did he honor Christ the Lord as holy in his heart before hand? No. Was that defense made done with gentleness and respect? No. The qualifications listed for this defense are linked to one's faith in Christ, suffering for the faith if needs be, and giving a reason for your hope to those who ask you.

Imagine if the MI and FAIR folk had followed the counsel of this scripture. We wouldn't be having this discussion. Indeed, we may not even be here.

[_MrStakhanovite]

Imagine if the MI and FAIR folk had followed the counsel of this scripture. We wouldn't be having this discussion. Indeed, we may not even be here.

That whole sub-culture of Mormon apologetics that exists on MD&D views that passage is such an atextual and self-centered ways.

I think the key phrase is "honoring Christ in your heart as holy" that comes before making the defense. If someone truly honors Christ in their heart as holy, how are they going to act in situations that require apologetics? With out even being aware of this passage, one could easily say "gentleness and respect".

Now check out this thread, and notice how this key concept is completely missed.

[_Kishkumen]

That whole sub-culture of Mormon apologetics that exists on MD&D views that passage is such an atextual and self-centered ways.

I think the key phrase is "honoring Christ in your heart as holy" that comes before making the defense. If someone truly honors Christ in their heart as holy, how are they going to act in situations that require apologetics? With out even being aware of this passage, one could easily say "gentleness and respect".

Now check out this thread, and notice how this key concept is completely missed.

Wow. It is striking how mercyngrace, using the scripture, emphasized the importance conducting the defense in the right spirit, and everyone else simply ignored her. Ugh.

[Guest]

I started to read Ben's post this morning. But he lost me by the end of the first paragraph:

What fascinates me is that the most vocal proponents of the idea that apologetics is harmful are the critics of the church (and it doesn't matter if they are still on the membership roles). I have to wonder if part of this isn't a rather unorganized campaign to try and smear apologetics writers in rather the same sort of way that they are accused of hurting the church.

I grimaced and closed the browser window.

[_Kishkumen]

I started to read Ben's post this morning. But he lost me by the end of the first paragraph:

What fascinates me is that the most vocal proponents of the idea that apologetics is harmful are the critics of the church (and it doesn't matter if they are still on the membership roles). I have to wonder if part of this isn't a rather unorganized campaign to try and smear apologetics writers in rather the same sort of way that they are accused of hurting the church.

I grimaced and closed the browser window.

LOL.

[_CaliforniaKid]

Maybe I should go back and read the rest. However, I got the impression Ben was going to defend the idea of apologetics in the abstract, which I think misses the point. It is the way LDS apologetics have often actually been conducted that so many of us regard as harmful. (I made the distinction, for example, here.) I have heard many people attest that FARMS-style polemics contributed to their alienation from the Church. And certainly such polemics don't encourage or exhibit the love and respect that are supposed to accompany faith.

[_Kishkumen]

Maybe I should go back and read the rest. However, I got the impression Ben was going to defend the idea of apologetics in the abstract, which I think misses the point. It is the way LDS apologetics have often actually been conducted that so many of us regard as harmful. I have heard many people attest that FARMS-style polemics contributed to their alienation from the Church. And certainly such polemics don't encourage or exhibit the love and respect that are supposed to accompany faith.

I think one can take issue with a number of things Ben says, but his post is way above par for the LDS apologists' usual defense of apologetics.

[_lulu]

Part II is now available.

http://bycommonconsent.com/2012/06/27/a ... ent-262646

I read Jacob as saying that Jean Luc Marion is saying that the purpose of apologetics is to stop the will from "insisting on more reasons" to believe.

I'm not picking up well on his shift from the Bishop presiding at Eucharist as theologian par excellence to the non-Bishop theologian as apologist.

I'll read it again before commenting on the blog site.

It will be interesting to see how he ties in the Bishop as theologian par excellence to Mormonism with a priesthood of all male believers.

And thanks to Kish for pointing towards this blog.




Edited in: I think I see it now, the "every-day" apologist should "stand in the shoes" of the Bishop - the theologian par excellence presiding at Eucharist.