WTF? Now Mormons Believe in the Trinity?

[_Equality]

Who exactly is it we are trying to impress?

You are correct. We don't accept the trinity doctrine at all. It is an attempt though to communicate on some basic level that we believe in the same God of the Bible which they refer to as a "trinity". It's akin to the Book of Mormon attempt to bridge the same gap with the Lamanites saying the Great Spirit is God. However in this day and age, I find it to be disingenuous to reference the Godhead that way.

But of course you already know this.....

So if you were answering the question, you would have just said no. Do you not sustain President Newsroom as a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator?

[_LDSToronto]

After 34-years as a member of the LDS Church, I just got informed that Mormons believe in the Trinity.

This is in complete contradiction to what I grew up hearing in the Church.

The strange thing is I didn't hear this from my Baptist neighbor down the street, or the Catholic across the street.

Instead, I have to hear it from the LDS Church's official website:

Do Mormons believe in the Trinity?

Mormons most commonly use the term “Godhead” to refer to the Trinity. The first article of faith for the Latter-day Saints reads: “We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.” Latter-day Saints believe God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are one in will and purpose but are not literally the same being or substance, as conceptions of the Holy Trinity commonly imply.

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormonism-101#C5

This attempt to try to mainstream Mormonism is a bit much for me.

First, when Mormons say "the Godhead," they are NOT referring to "the Trinity."

And the Holy Trinity does not "commonly imply" that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are the same substance; it is an essential part of the creed.

Starting to get a bit sick of the whole PC thing.

Who exactly is it we are trying to impress?

Or fool?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Well, I'm sold. See you all in church next week!

H.

[_cafe crema]

DCP presented the same thing in a DN article a couple of years ago.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700065755/Daniel-C-Peterson-Mormons-and-the-Holy-Trinity.html?pg=all

This is not trying to impress or fool someone, it is lying plain and simple, and it is intended to lead people to believe that LDS and the rest of Christianity believe the same things.

[_Cicero]

Well, I'm sold. See you all in church next week!

H.

Shades is starting a church? Cool, sign me up. I'd love to be able to hang out with all of you classless pieces of s*** on Sunday.

[_madeleine]

It is just the usual Mormonism redefinition of terms. I can't think of a single Christian term that Mormonism uses that has not been redefined. Either in explicit meaning, or underlying theology.

[_ldsfaqs]

After 34-years as a member of the LDS Church, I just got informed that Mormons believe in the Trinity.

This is in complete contradiction to what I grew up hearing in the Church.

The strange thing is I didn't hear this from my Baptist neighbor down the street, or the Catholic across the street.

Instead, I have to hear it from the LDS Church's official website:

Do Mormons believe in the Trinity?

Mormons most commonly use the term “Godhead” to refer to the Trinity. The first article of faith for the Latter-day Saints reads: “We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.” Latter-day Saints believe God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are one in will and purpose but are not literally the same being or substance, as conceptions of the Holy Trinity commonly imply.

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormonism-101#C5

We have ALWAYS believed in the Trinity..... Just not technically the modern Nicene Creed version.

Do we need more proof that people who become anti-mormon or leave the Church STOP or NEVER understood it in the first place??? Perfect example here of that with Consig's judgment of this issue.

This attempt to try to mainstream Mormonism is a bit much for me.

That's because you don't actually know Mormonism. You have a partial and perverted knowledge and understanding, which is why you accept so many anti-mormon views.

First, when Mormons say "the Godhead," they are NOT referring to "the Trinity."

Yes they are..... It's a Trinity, and to a layman, it's a Trinity. Only to other religions would they might think of the Nicene Creed Trinity.

And the Holy Trinity does not "commonly imply" that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are the same substance; it is an essential part of the creed.

Technically, as Father and Son, they ARE of the "same substance".
However, where LDS disagree is the modern interpretations of that phrase, an ideology which wasn't entirely considered that way by most when the Nicene Creed was first written. That is an ideology which took dominance, and changed Christianity. Same Substance originally meant to most the way LDS look at it.

Starting to get a bit sick of the whole PC thing.

You should instead be sick of your own ignorance of Mormonism.
This has always been Mormonism.

Who exactly is it we are trying to impress?

Or fool?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Certainly not you.... Although, the Church is likely trying to also educate you. But, in your pride you rebel and condemn.

[_bcspace]

So if you were answering the question, you would have just said no.

Not exactly. I would have emphasized that we believe in the Father, Son and Holy GHost and also reject the Trinity doctrine.

Do you not sustain President Newsroom as a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator?

I have never claimed to accept all doctrine. However, I reject the notion that the LDS Church using the word trinity in this fashion means acceptance of the actual creed but as I described in my previous post.

[_Equality]

So if you were answering the question, you would have just said no.

Not exactly. I would have emphasized that we believe in the Father, Son and Holy GHost and also reject the Trinity doctrine.

Do you not sustain President Newsroom as a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator?

I have never claimed to accept all doctrine. However, I reject the notion that the LDS Church using the word trinity in this fashion means acceptance of the actual creed but as I described in my previous post.

Would you admit that President Newsroom is being squirrelly in answering this particular question? Do you agree that Talmage's straightforward answer is a more clear description of Mormon doctrine on the matter? Why do you think the Church answered the question this way?

[_Mittens]

Who is this LDS newsroom person? Whoever it is, he/she is lame. Grow a pair!

E. Calvin Beisner
God in Three Persons
The Christian Church throughout history has found in order to remain faithful to the teachings of the New Testament regarding the person and work of Christ, it had to affirm at least the following doctrines:
The doctrine of the Trinity----that in the nature of the One True God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, each fully God,

When we have said these three things, then—that there is but one God, that the Father and the Son and the Spirit is each a distinct person—we have enunciated the doctrine of the Trinity in its completeness.

We may condense this into a somewhat shorter statement, one which is more precise: In the nature of the God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit ( or substance ) of the one true God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit p 24
“The Nicene Creed, then, with centuries of theological discussion and controversy behind it, still teaches of the Trinity as the New Testament does: that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, while distinct from each other personally, are the same God” p 153

It is this relation of Christ to the Father and the Spirit which Dr John Robinson takes as one of the strong-est indications of triunity in the Godhead:
At the Incarnation… the Godhead is revealed for the first time as existing in three distinct relationships. It is these differences of relation that make necessary a doctrine of the Trinity, not differences of “character” or modes working. The Old Testament, too knew God in different “characters” but it was not forced to a Trinity Theology…We cannot begin with God creating, God redeeming, God sanctifying, or any such collection of attributes, and proceed to identify these with Father, Son, and Holy Spirit…Rather, one must start with the three Persons, no more and no less, which are required by the three relations at the Incarnation When we have said these three things, then---that there is but one God, that the Father and the son and the spirit is each God, that the Father and the Son and the Spirit is each a distinct person---We have enunciated the doctrine of the Trinity in its completeness.
God in Three Persons Page 40

Perhaps the most famous Trinitarian reference from the second century is the statement of Theophilus [ 116-181], another writer who is only shortly removed from the last of the apostles. His is the first use of the word “trinity” in Christian literature which is extant:
In like manner also the three days which were before the luminaries, are types of the Trinity, of God, and His Word, and His Wisdoms.” Vol 2 pp 100 101 Epistles to Autolycus,II WV
Page 53

The concept of Trinity in unity, three distinct persons who are the one God, is then firmly entrenched in Christian thought by the middle to second century
Page 54

Thus the connection of the Father in the Son, and of the Son in the Paraclete, produces three Co-herent Persons, who are yet distinct One from Another. These Three are one essence, not one Person, as it is said, “ I and my Father are One “ in respect of unity of substance, not singularity of number. Roberts and Donaldson, anti-Nicene Fathers Vol. 3, p. 621, against Praxeas, xxv
Page 57 God in three Persons

Conclusion
The New Testament teaches us that there is one God and that this God is three distinct persons, the Father the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and that these persons are co-equal and co-eternal. This is also the only possible interpretation of the Nicene Creed as it was intended by its authors. Therefore, the doctrine of the Trinity as taught in the Nicene Creed is an accurate representation of the teachings of the New Testament” pp 155-156
E. Calvin Beisner

[_Mittens]

Trinity
The doctrine of the Trinity in the godhead includes the three following particulars, viz. (a) There is only one God, one divine nature; (b) but in this divine nature there is the distinction of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, as three (subjects or persons); and (c) these three-have equally, and in common with one another, the nature and perfection of supreme divinity. It was the custom in former times for theologians to blend their own speculations and those of others with the statement of the Bible doctrine. It is customary now to exhibit first the simple doctrine of the Bible, and afterwards, in a separate part, the speculations of the learned respecting it.
(from McClintock and Strong Encyclopedia, Electronic Database. Copyright © 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

TRINITY
The coexistence of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in the unity of the Godhead (divine nature or essence). The doctrine of the trinity means that within the being and activity of the one God there are three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Although the word trinity does not appear in the Bible, the "trinitarian formula" is mentioned in the Great Commission (Matt 28:19) and in the benediction of the apostle Paul's Second Epistle to the Corinthians (2 Cor 13:14).
(from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright © 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)

Trinity
used to express the doctrine of the unity of God as subsisting in three distinct Persons. This word is derived from the Gr.
trias
, first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168 A.D. - 183 A.D.), or from the Lat. trinitas, first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220 A.D.), to express this doctrine. The propositions involved in the doctrine are these: 1. That God is one, and that there is but one God (Deut 6:4; 1 Kings 8:60; Isa 44:6; Mark 12:29,32; John 10:30). 2. That the Father is a distinct divine Person (hypostasis, subsistentia, persona, suppositum intellectuale), distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit. 3. That Jesus Christ was truly God, and yet was a Person distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit. 4. That the Holy Spirit is also a distinct divine Person.
(from Easton's Bible Dictionary, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)


we are not using Biblical language when we define what is expressed by it as the doctrine that there is one only and true God, but in the unity of the Godhead there are three coeternal and coequal Persons, the same in substance but distinct in subsistence. A doctrine so defined can be spoken of as a Biblical doctrine only on the principle that the sense of Scripture is Scripture. And the definition of a Biblical doctrine in such un-Biblical language can be justified only on the principle that it is better to preserve the truth of Scripture than the words of Scripture. The doctrine of the Trinity lies in Scripture in solution; when it is crystallized from its solvent it does not cease to be Scriptural, but only comes into clearer view. Or, to speak without figure, the doctrine of the Trinity is given to us in Scripture, not in formulated definition, but in fragmentary allusions; when we assemble the disjecta membra into their organic unity, we are not passing from Scripture, but entering more thoroughly into the meaning of Scripture. We may state the doctrine in TRINITY The coexistence of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in the unity of the Godhead (divine nature or essence). The doctrine of the trinity means that within the being and activity of the one God there are three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Although the word trinity does not appear in the Bible, the "trinitarian formula" is mentioned in the Great Commission (Matt 28:19) and in the benediction of the apostle Paul's Second Epistle to the Corinthians (2 Cor 13:14).
(from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright © 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)

we are not using Biblical language when we define what is expressed by it as the doctrine that there is one only and true God, but in the unity of the Godhead there are three coeternal and coequal Persons, the same in substance but distinct in subsistence. A doctrine so defined can be spoken of as a Biblical doctrine only on the principle that the sense of Scripture is Scripture. And the definition of a Biblical doctrine in such un-Biblical language can be justified only on the principle that it is better to preserve the truth of Scripture than the words of Scripture. The doctrine of the Trinity lies in Scripture in solution; when it is crystallized from its solvent it does not cease to be Scriptural, but only comes into clearer view. Or, to speak without figure, the doctrine of the Trinity is given to us in Scripture, not in formulated definition, but in fragmentary allusions; when we assemble the disjecta membra into their organic unity, we are not passing from Scripture, but entering more thoroughly into the meaning of Scripture. We may state the doctrine in technical terms, supplied by philosophical reflection; but the doctrine stated is a genuinely Scriptural doctrine.
(from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Electronic Database Copyright © 1996, 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

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