Book of Mormon Contradiction: Freedom of Belief

[_Cicero]

What is the point of coming up with a whole new book of scripture if you don't quote from it to support yourself

Well, what if that book of scripture doesn't support what you are doing? I mean, I'm sure that by the end Joseph probably wasn't wanting to highlight Jacob 2:27 to his followers. There is no question that Joseph's view on a great deal of topics evolved over his lifetime, just as the story of the church's origins evolved over time (e.g., the account of the First Vision and of the restoration of the priesthood).

Perhaps Joseph wasn't emphasizing it because he knew that it wasn't his latest and greatest.

[_Nightlion]

It's a little curious that in making such inspired changes to reflect what the ancient Nephite prophets really meant, Joseph Smith (peace be upon him) never employed his singular knowledge of the meaning of the Nephite record in his sermons.

Peace be upon thee DJ. But ah, em, the way that you make Joseph look is disingenuous. You know cause he kept this:
2 Nephi 5:21

21 And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

And I think other references to white and delightsome remained after Joseph was gone.

There is a huge reason WHY Joseph Smith could not preach from the Book of Mormon. It requires Zion of the people for a standard. Joseph Smith knew this perfectly well and if he preached Zion the people would have fled from him. He was courting them to use the Gentiles to carry the seeds of Zion hence 180 years when the ground will be prepared and a man is thoroughly furnished to garden the Holy Land. These days have now come in and the Gentiles can go their way. Thanks for everything.

[_Darth J]

Oh, of course. The Book of Mormon was too precious for Joseph Smith to cite in a single one of his sermons in 14 years. That must be why he kept the Book of Mormon a secret.

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, page 370

I am bold to declare I have taught all the strong doctrines publicly, and always teach stronger doctrine in public than in private.

Huh. I guess there goes that "if he preached Zion the people would have fled from him" hypothesis. Unless you are of the opinion that people in the 19th-century Midwest would more readily accept an eternal chain of god-men living on other planets and God the Father once being a mortal man than the mundane Protestant Christianity found in the Book of Mormon.

[_Tobin]

I've read in more than one place reference to the possibility that Joseph Smith had access to some kind of Masonic Bible and that he was ripping it off (for the Book of Mormon or the Book of Abraham I cannot recall). I've never delved into that idea fully, but some say that Masons killed him because they were pissed he was revealing their secrets to the world...which could also just be for the temple ceremonies.

Uh what? This is new. Where on earth did you hear that one?

[_just me]

I've read in more than one place reference to the possibility that Joseph Smith had access to some kind of Masonic Bible and that he was ripping it off (for the Book of Mormon or the Book of Abraham I cannot recall). I've never delved into that idea fully, but some say that Masons killed him because they were pissed he was revealing their secrets to the world...which could also just be for the temple ceremonies.

Uh what? This is new. Where on earth did you hear that one?

Around the internetz

[_LDSToronto]

I've read in more than one place reference to the possibility that Joseph Smith had access to some kind of Masonic Bible and that he was ripping it off (for the Book of Mormon or the Book of Abraham I cannot recall). I've never delved into that idea fully, but some say that Masons killed him because they were pissed he was revealing their secrets to the world...which could also just be for the temple ceremonies.

Uh what? This is new. Where on earth did you hear that one?

Are you thinking of the book, Antiquities of Freemasonry?

H.

[_Nightlion]

Oh, of course. The Book of Mormon was too precious for Joseph Smith to cite in a single one of his sermons in 14 years. That must be why he kept the Book of Mormon a secret.

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, page 370

I am bold to declare I have taught all the strong doctrines publicly, and always teach stronger doctrine in public than in private.

Huh. I guess there goes that "if he preached Zion the people would have fled from him" hypothesis. Unless you are of the opinion that people in the 19th-century Midwest would more readily accept an eternal chain of god-men living on other planets and God the Father once being a mortal man than the mundane Protestant Christianity found in the Book of Mormon.

The fact that you count Book of Mormon gospel as mundane Protestant Christianity proves you are clueless what I am talking about. The strength of his public addresses is relevant to the overall mundanity of what they could receive. The Lord officially repudiated them for taking the Book of Mormon lightly. Joseph never saw to that in earnest. Why is that? Your entire church is under condemnation and you blow it off? hmmm? The god-maker BS was intentionally misleading to capture the imagination of ego-maniacal Gentiles so they would sit on the nest. See 2 Thessalonians 2.

[_Darth J]

Nightlion, I look forward to your sharing some previously unthought of doctrine from the Book of Mormon that is not mundane Protestant Christianity.

[_RayAgostini]

In the Book of Mormon we have a contradiction about whether people were free to believe whatever they like about god.

In two verses we read that people were free to believe in god or disbelieve.

Alma 1:21
Now there was a strict law among the people of the church that there should not any man, belonging to the church, arise and persecute those that did not belong to the church, and that there should be no persecution among themselves.

Alma 30:9
If a man desired to serve God, it was his privilege; or rather, if he believed in God it was his privilege to serve him; but if he did not believe in him there was no law to punish him.

Yet, let's see how Korihor was treated for not believing in god.

Alma 30:29
Now when the high priest and the chief judge saw the hardness of his heart, yea, when they saw that he would revile even against God, they would not make any reply to his words; but they caused that he should be bound; and they delivered him up into the hands of the officers, and sent him to the land of Zarahemla, that he might be brought before Alma, and the chief judge who was governor over all the land.

Hmmmm.

Korihor was bound and carried to Alma (by the "more wise than many of the Nephites"), but not imprisoned for his beliefs, or in other words - silenced:

12 And this Anti-Christ, whose name was Korihor, (and the law could have no hold upon him) began to preach unto the people that there should be no Christ. And after this manner did he preach, saying: (Alma 30)

.

Binding and carrying someone to Alma to answer charges, in an equal debate about the existence of God, is not the same as a Gulag silencing, where there is no recourse to argue your point. Korihor was given that chance:

19 Now this man went over to the land of Jershon also, to preach these things among the people of Ammon, who were once the people of the Lamanites.
20 But behold they were more wise than many of the Nephites; for they took him, and bound him, and carried him before Ammon, who was a high priest over that people.
21 And it came to pass that he caused that he should be carried out of the land. And he came over into the land of Gideon, and began to preach unto them also; and here he did not have much success, for he was taken and bound and carried before the high priest, and also the chief judge over the land.
22 And it came to pass that the high priest said unto him: Why do ye go about perverting the ways of the Lord? Why do ye teach this people that there shall be no Christ, to interrupt their rejoicings? Why do ye speak against all the prophecies of the holy prophets?
23 Now the high priest’s name was Giddonah. And Korihor said unto him: Because I do not teach the foolish traditions of your fathers, and because I do not teach this people to bind themselves down under the foolish ordinances and performances which are laid down by ancient priests, to usurp power and authority over them, to keep them in ignorance, that they may not lift up their heads, but be brought down according to thy words.
24 Ye say that this people is a free people. Behold, I say they are in bondage. Ye say that those ancient prophecies are true. Behold, I say that ye do not know that they are true.
25 Ye say that this people is a guilty and a fallen people, because of the transgression of a parent. Behold, I say that a child is not guilty because of its parents.
26 And ye also say that Christ shall come. But behold, I say that ye do not know that there shall be a Christ. And ye say also that he shall be slain for the sins of the world—
27 And thus ye lead away this people after the foolish traditions of your fathers, and according to your own desires; and ye keep them down, even as it were in bondage, that ye may glut yourselves with the labors of their hands, that they durst not look up with boldness, and that they durst not enjoy their rights and privileges.
28 Yea, they durst not make use of that which is their own lest they should offend their priests, who do yoke them according to their desires, and have brought them to believe, by their traditions and their dreams and their whims and their visions and their pretended mysteries, that they should, if they did not do according to their words, offend some unknown being, who they say is God—a being who never has been seen or known, who never was nor ever will be.
29 Now when the high priest and the chief judge saw the hardness of his heart, yea, when they saw that he would revile even against God, they would not make any reply to his words; but they caused that he should be bound; and they delivered him up into the hands of the officers, and sent him to the land of Zarahemla, that he might be brought before Alma, and the chief judge who was governor over all the land.
30 And it came to pass that when he was brought before Alma and the chief judge, he did go on in the same manner as he did in the land of Gideon; yea, he went on to blaspheme.
31 And he did rise up in great swelling words before Alma, and did revile against the priests and teachers, accusing them of leading away the people after the silly traditions of their fathers, for the sake of glutting on the labors of the people.
32 Now Alma said unto him: Thou knowest that we do not glut ourselves upon the labors of this people; for behold I have labored even from the commencement of the reign of the judges until now, with mine own hands for my support, notwithstanding my many travels round about the land to declare the word of God unto my people.
33 And notwithstanding the many labors which I have performed in the church, I have never received so much as even one senine for my labor; neither has any of my brethren, save it were in the judgment-seat; and then we have received only according to law for our time.
34 And now, if we do not receive anything for our labors in the church, what doth it profit us to labor in the church save it were to declare the truth, that we may have rejoicings in the joy of our brethren?
35 Then why sayest thou that we preach unto this people to get gain, when thou, of thyself, knowest that we receive no gain? And now, believest thou that we deceive this people, that causes such joy in their hearts?
36 And Korihor answered him, Yea.
37 And then Alma said unto him: Believest thou that there is a God?
38 And he answered, Nay.
39 Now Alma said unto him: Will ye deny again that there is a God, and also deny the Christ? For behold, I say unto you, I know there is a God, and also that Christ shall come.
40 And now what evidence have ye that there is no God, or that Christ cometh not? I say unto you that ye have none, save it be your word only.
41 But, behold, I have all things as a testimony that these things are true; and ye also have all things as a testimony unto you that they are true; and will ye deny them? Believest thou that these things are true?
42 Behold, I know that thou believest, but thou art possessed with a lying spirit, and ye have put off the Spirit of God that it may have no place in you; but the devil has power over you, and he doth carry you about, working devices that he may destroy the children of God.
43 And now Korihor said unto Alma: If thou wilt show me a sign, that I may be convinced that there is a God, yea, show unto me that he hath power, and then will I be convinced of the truth of thy words.
44 But Alma said unto him: Thou hast had signs enough; will ye tempt your God? Will ye say, Show unto me a sign, when ye have the testimony of all these thy brethren, and also all the holy prophets? The scriptures are laid before thee, yea, and all things denote there is a God; yea, even the earth, and all things that are upon the face of it, yea, and its motion, yea, and also all the planets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator.
45 And yet do ye go about, leading away the hearts of this people, testifying unto them there is no God? And yet will ye deny against all these witnesses? And he said: Yea, I will deny, except ye shall show me a sign.
46 And now it came to pass that Alma said unto him: Behold, I am grieved because of the hardness of your heart, yea, that ye will still resist the spirit of the truth, that thy soul may be destroyed.
47 But behold, it is better that thy soul should be lost than that thou shouldst be the means of bringing many souls down to destruction, by thy lying and by thy flattering words; therefore if thou shalt deny again, behold God shall smite thee, that thou shalt become dumb, that thou shalt never open thy mouth any more, that thou shalt not deceive this people any more.
48 Now Korihor said unto him: I do not deny the existence of a God, but I do not believe that there is a God; and I say also, that ye do not know that there is a God; and except ye show me a sign, I will not believe.
49 Now Alma said unto him: This will I give unto thee for a sign, that thou shalt be struck dumb, according to my words; and I say, that in the name of God, ye shall be struck dumb, that ye shall no more have utterance.
50 Now when Alma had said these words, Korihor was struck dumb, that he could not have utterance, according to the words of Alma.
51 And now when the chief judge saw this, he put forth his hand and wrote unto Korihor, saying: Art thou convinced of the power of God? In whom did ye desire that Alma should show forth his sign? Would ye that he should afflict others, to show unto thee a sign? Behold, he has showed unto you a sign; and now will ye dispute more?
52 And Korihor put forth his hand and wrote, saying: I know that I am dumb, for I cannot speak; and I know that nothing save it were the power of God could bring this upon me; yea, and I always knew that there was a God.

Korihor was given every chance to defend himself before Alma. There was indeed no law against his belief. He was not imprisoned and silenced. Arguably, his binding and forced removal to Alma could have been technically illegal, but they didn't shoot or kill him, or imprison him, or seek to silence him, but bound him and brought him before Alma to argue his case.

We all know the story from there, and it was not Alma or the Nephites who brought about his end:

60 And thus we see the end of him who perverteth the ways of the Lord; and thus we see that the devil will not support his children at the last day, but doth speedily drag them down to hell.

[_Tobin]

I've read in more than one place reference to the possibility that Joseph Smith had access to some kind of Masonic Bible and that he was ripping it off (for the Book of Mormon or the Book of Abraham I cannot recall). I've never delved into that idea fully, but some say that Masons killed him because they were pissed he was revealing their secrets to the world...which could also just be for the temple ceremonies.

Uh what? This is new. Where on earth did you hear that one?

Are you thinking of the book, Antiquities of Freemasonry?

I think so, but just me - that isn't a Masonic Bible. It is simply a book written by George Oliver to promote the merits of Free Masonry.