Analytics wrote:Ludd wrote:I just scanned through the comments section you linked to. Peterson has LOTS to say. He must have made fifty comments or more on that thread! And he comes across as someone who has a severe persecution complex. It's ridiculous and he should have just stopped. But from what I could see, Schryver didn't post more than three posts...
I counted 16.
I didn't realize that you had to keep clicking "Load more comments" over and over and over. Your right: there are 16 Schryver posts in the comment section of this photo essay at Time/Life:
Happy Valley Photo Essay Anyway, Everybody Wang Chung says that his "chapel Mormon" brother, after reading the comment section of a Time magazine online photo essay, was especially bothered by William Schryver's posts. This "chapel Mormon" brother apparently thinks Schryver's comments are so offensive that they serve to impede the progress of the Mormon church.
So I went and gathered all the Schryver posts and have included them in this post. Surely there must be some very awful stuff in these posts, since Chung's brother believes they might very well destroy Mormonism, or at least turn potential converts away from it.
I would very much like Mr. Chung to inidicate which of the these posts he finds particularly offensive and why:
LOL! The Mormon/Apostate Mormon debate goes on tour, led by the inimitable John Kirk Williams, crown prince of online apostate-Mormon mockery, proudly wearing his two-faced hat in a new arena!
I apologize for being so late to this new discussion—which is merely a change of venue for an old discussion that has been going on for many years now on more traditional online Mormon discussion forums. Same cast of characters; same modi operandi; same anti-Mormon propaganda techniques played out under a different URL.
As for Shumway's photography, I thought a few of the compositions were interesting. But make no mistake, virtually all of these photos were deliberately posed compositions—well-executed in some respects, but above all revealing of the artist's own gnawing sense of mediocrity.
Apparently he grew up on the "wrong side of the tracks". Alas, many did. Almost every county in America has neighborhoods on the "wrong side of the tracks". Shumway would have us believe his particular experience was typical of Mormon culture in general, and consequent to the (presumed) oppression of Mormon teachings. He would have us believe that the "slice of life" he pretends to spontaneously document in these photos is Mormonism. Of course, it's not. It's merely part of Utah, just as every poorly educated, culturally backward family in every bad neighborhood in every state is part of America.
The biggest problem with Shumway's photos, however, is that they scream out disingenuousness, as though an audio track accompanied each one and you can hear Shumway whispering, right before the shutter click: "Now remember, look as sad and depressed as you possibly can …" To me, disingenuous art is no art at all—it's merely propaganda.
Mormons vs. Apostate Mormon Evangelists
For anyone around the country wants to have a window into the current atmosphere of Mormon/Ex-Mormon online conversations, the comments section of this article is a representative microcosm.
Happiness is irrelevant to art. Shumway's "Happy Valley" photos are (in my opinion) simply mediocre and contrived. That said, I recommend much of his other work, which I found rather impressive in many instances. As I have stated already, I found the "La Chureca" and "Editorial" folders very well done.
Apparently it's not permissible to post links in comments here. But I examined Shumway's complete portfolio at his website, and was very favorably impressed with much of it. I especially like the "La Chureca" and "Editorial" folders. His other work stands in stark contrast to the "Happy Valley" photos, which I found to be artificial and contrived.
I want to publicly apologize to Mr. Shumway for having initially interpreted his photo essay as an attempt to portray his own family as culturally backward and oppressed. I now understand that he merely wanted to use staged photos of his family as a vehicle to portray Mormons in general as culturally backward and oppressed.
Don't complain to me! You're the one who (apparently) calculated to make your subjects in your "Happy Valley" folder appear to be culturally backward and oppressed. Unfortunately, all you did (in my opinion) was demonstrate the axiom that contrived art is bad art.
ETA: I very much liked your other work, especially the La Chureca and Editorial folders. Excellent stuff.
In response to Oliver Pratt's post below re: making Mormons appear to be culturally backward.
Mr. Pratt, you evoke the memory of Sarah Packard's (The Hustler) final words: Perverted, Twisted, Crippled.
Regrettably, I suspect this long comment thread has not come to the attention of anyone except the usual cast of characters from a pair of online Mormon/ex-Mormon message boards. That's too bad, because I am convinced that any objective "outsider" reading these comments would readily perceive the stark differences between the two camps: Mormon apologists, by and large, come across as temperate and articulate, whereas the overwhelming majority of their anti-Mormon antagonists exhibit the attributes of a propaganda-spewing mob.
This, folks, is one of the champions of the apostate Mormon crowd; one of their most admired "thinkers".
Please work your way through this thread, Graham, replying to as many posts as you'd like. Demonstrate your inimitable superiority; mop the floors with the silly defenders of Mormonism; show the world how "liberation" from the chains of Mormonism can transform an intellectual pygmy into a towering savant. I can conceive of nothing that would please me more than to witness your withering mind in action.
LOL!
I rest my case.
The jig is up, Dan. They have summoned forth the Goliath of the apostate Mormon world, and there is nothing left for you but to tuck tail and run while there is still time.
With an incisiveness sharp enough to slice a mere atom of Mormon apologetic nonsense, Kevin Graham swoops in for the kill:
"Mormons can be happy families, but I know more than a few that are just a (sic) miserable as this one appears."
And thus, in a single breathtaking stroke, Graham acknowledges the very point the critics of this photo essay have been attempting to make from the very beginning of this unprecedented time.com comment section rhetorical duel: Brian Shumway's Happy Valley photo essay conveys the impression of a miserable family.
Graham innocently asks:
"Are we supposed to believe these were Mormons who were intentionally posing for some future anti-Mormon blog? "
To which I reply: Almost certainly these people had little or no conception of the fact that these photos were destined for potentially global exposure at time.com, nor that those same photos would launch this almost stunning specimen of online Mormon/apostate-Mormon interaction, but I think it is self-evident that these photos were intentionally posed with a specific end in mind. That end has been accurately articulated by many of the faithful Mormons who have commented here, and now it has been acknowledged--no doubt inadvertently--by the inimitable Kevin Graham.
We can only pray he keeps posting. I feel certain the capstone he is placing on this thread is not quite complete.
This comment thread is a prime specimen of the "flash mob" spontaneous consensus that is, in my experience, a defining characteristic of the online Mormon apostate community.
It looks like this comment thread has finally come to an end. It has been an absolutely fascinating case study in the uniquely volatile nature of Mormon/apostate-Mormon relations. To my knowledge, there is nothing even remotely analogous to the hyper-passionate Mormon/apostate-Mormon conversation consequent to the advent of the internet and online discussion forums. And, as I stated previously, this comment thread is a prime specimen of the "flash mob" spontaneous consensus that is a defining characteristic of the online Mormon apostate community.
Should Mitt Romney become the next President of the United States of America, I am very curious to see how the apostate Mormon community will react. They are already very actively evangelistic. It will be interesting to see how their "missionary zeal" will manifest itself in the context of the "normalization" of Mormonism that would necessarily follow the election of a devout member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the leader of the free world.
I'm afraid not. The link you posted refers to a non-existent person created for propaganda purposes by anti-Mormons like yourself. Thanks for asking, though. I'd hate for there to be a case of mistaken identity.
I seriously doubt you will be damned to hell for changing into "street clothes" when you get home from church, but you better damn well hope St. Peter doesn't have a minimum literacy requirement in order to pass through the pearly gates, otherwise you're doomed.
Dan,
I hope you can handle things here in my absence. I must now, as I mentioned to you yesterday, repair to warmer climes. Keep up the good work: embarrassing yourself, your erstwhile respectable university, and the good name of your church. If Romney loses in the upcoming, you may very well be personally to blame.
-WS