Ann Romney's testimony

[_Jason Bourne]

I despise pandering to Teabagger lunacy.

As do I.

I also despise pandering to left wing radicals.

[_Kishkumen]

It seems that him being LDS amplifies this angst for a lot of folks who are marginal (like me) or ex-mormon.

To put it another way, when I see Romney's right-wing politics and special interest pandering I don't see anything different from what Huckabee, Gingrich, Perry, or other right-wing politicians would do/say to appeal to the base. It's awful, yes. But do we really expect Romney to be any different than other US politicians?

Honestly, I'll be sitting this election out or writing in a candidates name as I have major concerns about both candidates.

Seth

I dislike Huckabee, Gingrich, and Perry for different reasons than I dislike Romney. Romney was generally disliked by his Republican rivals in 2008 because of the way he ran his campaign. He is also viewed as a shameless liar by the same group of people. As the de facto nominee, he has nevertheless drawn criticism from the likes of people I would almost never agree with on practically anything.

In short, I think Romney has real problems. I don't want him as my president.

[_Sethbag]

I really dislike Romney because he appears to be willing to say whatever he has to say, to whomever he has to say it, to get elected. He also says just the most outrageous things about Obama in order to please the crowds of haters and crazies the Republicans seem to be able to attract at their rallies.

I'm betting that if Romney wins the presidency, he is going to hope that others respect him because of the office he holds. And to win that office, he is body-slamming the current President, saying all kinds of disgusting things. That's sickening.

In a way I do expect more from Romney because he's a Mormon. Growing up TBM, I always expected that truth was very important to me and other Mormons. After all, we were God's representatives on Earth, flying his flag of Truth to the world. Lying, misrepresenting, slandering, cheating, etc. were all abhorrent to me, and disgraceful. As a TBM I would have expected that an faithful Mormon would know better.

Of course, now that I no longer believe Mormons have the "Holy Ghost" to set them straight I should start regarding Romney and the other Mormons as just people doing what people do best (and worst), but I still have trouble seeing him as just a "normal" guy. As a faithful Mormon he should know better.

I think his politics is just terrible for the Mormon Church. Fully half the country will be utterly appalled by Romney's abject pandering, lying, slandering, and disrespecting of the President of the United States. That means fifty percent of the population might in some small way associate all the worst aspects of Romney's campaign with the Mormon church. I think Romney's campaign, if anything, will make Democrats in this country even more unlikely to want anything to do with the Mormons than they already are.

[_palerobber]

I am hoping that you (and others here with similar views of Romney) can explain the animosity you have against him and Ann.

personally, i have no animosity towards Ann or any other political spouse, even if they do sometimes say things i would rather they didn't.

as for Mitt, though i've never lined up with him politically, i actually rooted for him to succeed in both his Olympic work and 2002 gubenatorial bid. i had known and thought well of one of his sons at BYU, and i thought that Romney represented his faith well -- smart, successful, rational, and moderate. where i started to lose respect for the guy was during the 2008 primaries when he decided to run hard to the right (calculating, i suppose, that McCain had the moderate vote sewn up), to pander to fundies and neocons, and to flip-flop on many of his past positions. in 2012 he has only gotten worse in this respect. and while every campaign will spin the facts in their favor, the number of straight up lies he's told on the trail is pretty disappointing.

one more thing that particularly disappointed me about Romney was when he came out against Muslims being allowed to build a mosque in lower Manhattan, despite the similar trouble he had faced in Boston trying to get a Mormon temple built. it was just stunning hypocrisy, not to mention a violation of his own 11th Article of Faith.

[_sethpayne]

one more thing that particularly disappointed me about Romney was when he came out against Muslims being allowed to build a mosque in lower Manhattan, despite the similar trouble he had faced in Boston trying to get a Mormon temple built. it was just stunning hypocrisy, not to mention a violation of his own 11th Article of Faith.

Wow. I wasn't aware of that position. That is really disappointing and hypocritical.

[_sethpayne]

It seems that him being LDS amplifies this angst for a lot of folks who are marginal (like me) or ex-mormon.

To put it another way, when I see Romney's right-wing politics and special interest pandering I don't see anything different from what Huckabee, Gingrich, Perry, or other right-wing politicians would do/say to appeal to the base. It's awful, yes. But do we really expect Romney to be any different than other US politicians?

Honestly, I'll be sitting this election out or writing in a candidates name as I have major concerns about both candidates.

Seth

I dislike Huckabee, Gingrich, and Perry for different reasons than I dislike Romney. Romney was generally disliked by his Republican rivals in 2008 because of the way he ran his campaign. He is also viewed as a shameless liar by the same group of people. As the de facto nominee, he has nevertheless drawn criticism from the likes of people I would almost never agree with on practically anything.

In short, I think Romney has real problems. I don't want him as my president.

Good points, Kish. Good points.

I suppose I've never had a real love affair with President Obama and I've been a disappointed with his ability to work with congress (healthcare reform and the current budget debate being a perfect example -- and certainly the GOP is the blame as well).

That's why I think I'll be writing in a candidate. Perhaps Dr. Scratch.

[_sethpayne]

I'm betting that if Romney wins the presidency, he is going to hope that others respect him because of the office he holds. And to win that office, he is body-slamming the current President, saying all kinds of disgusting things. That's sickening.

I don't disagree with you at all.

But isn't this par for the course? Bush was a Nazi. Goldwater was going to kill poor Daisy with nukes. Obama's hands aren't exactly clean here. That recent ad implying that Romney caused the death of a woman with cancer was pretty disgusting as well.

In a way I do expect more from Romney because he's a Mormon. Growing up TBM, I always expected that truth was very important to me and other Mormons. After all, we were God's representatives on Earth, flying his flag of Truth to the world. Lying, misrepresenting, slandering, cheating, etc. were all abhorrent to me, and disgraceful. As a TBM I would have expected that an faithful Mormon would know better.

Fair enough. I guess I really don't see TBMs as different from anyone else. Some are fine people and some are politicians. :)

I think his politics is just terrible for the Mormon Church. Fully half the country will be utterly appalled by Romney's abject pandering, lying, slandering, and disrespecting of the President of the United States. That means fifty percent of the population might in some small way associate all the worst aspects of Romney's campaign with the Mormon church. I think Romney's campaign, if anything, will make Democrats in this country even more unlikely to want anything to do with the Mormons than they already are.

Were you just as disgusted at the attacks on Bush? Or what about the attacks by Bush on McCain in SC? Unfortunately politics as usual.

Let's face it: If Romney (or any candidate for that matter) didn't employ standard political tactics he would have no chance of winning.

[Guest]

Another thing I don't understand is why Romney's wealth is held against him. The man is a kick-ass businessperson. I worked closely for many years (as a technical and market data consultant) with PE and Hedge Funds and from my perspective, Bain Capital is a great example of what a PE firm should be. Yes, people lose jobs during M&A but jobs and wealth are also created. In other words, I see PE having a net positive impact on the economy. Many companies that would now be extinct have been rescued by PE. Sure there are some very bad apples out there but I don't see Bain/Romney that way. I agree with Bill Clinton's assesment of PE -- sometimes you do well and sometimes you don't.

i don't hold Romney's wealth against him, but i also don't see anything particularly praiseworthy about the way he made his money. not unlike John Edwards, he got rich by arranging very large transfers of money and skimming a percentage off the top (though in Edwards' case that money was flowing away from rich and powerful instead of toward them). yes, both Romney and Edwards were very good at what they did, but to me it's not nearly as impressive as an engineer, artist, or business owner who creates something of value from scratch.

of course, what i do hold against Romney is that his economic policies favor the wealthy at the expense of the poor.

[_Sethbag]

Yeah, I was disgusted by a great many of the attacks on Bush. I have never been able to respect groups like Moveon.org for some of their past shenanigans. Bush is an American. Romney is an American, even if his dad was Mexican. ;-) Obama is an American. I reject the delegitimization of people who don't agree with me on every little thing as not real Americans.

By the way, if Romney couldn't win the Presidency without stooping to lies, pandering, and slandering his opponent, then oh well, he should work to change the system. I don't agree that the ends (Romney gets to "save" America) justify the means (Romney has to delegitimize half the country's population as not genuinely American, lie, slander, etc.).

And that attack by the Bush team on McCain in 2008, where it was insinuated in a robocall that McCain had an illegitimate love child with a black woman was a particularly vile concoction of lying, slandering, and racism. Of course I reject that. It was despicable.

[_sethpayne]

Yeah, I was disgusted by a great many of the attacks on Bush. I have never been able to respect groups like Moveon.org for some of their past shenanigans. Bush is an American. Romney is an American, even if his dad was Mexican. ;-) Obama is an American. I reject the delegitimization of people who don't agree with me on every little thing as not real Americans.

By the way, if Romney couldn't win the Presidency without stooping to lies, pandering, and slandering his opponent, then oh well, he should work to change the system. I don't agree that the ends (Romney gets to "save" America) justify the means (Romney has to delegitimize half the country's population as not genuinely American, lie, slander, etc.).

And that attack by the Bush team on McCain in 2008, where it was insinuated in a robocall that McCain had an illegitimate love child with a black woman was a particularly vile concoction of lying, slandering, and racism. Of course I reject that. It was despicable.

Well, we are on the same page, methinks. Although it was 2000 when those robocalls occurred If I recall correctly.