Lance Starr Defends Ad Hominem Attacks

[_Paloma]

Two quotes that I read in today's daily newspaper seem particularly appropriate:

"When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people." (Abraham Joshua Herschel, U.S. rabbi, professor and theologian)

"Kindness is in our power, even when fondness is not." (Samuel Johnson, English writer)

Thank you, Paloma.

Somehow I find your approach to nudging me to act better so much more persuasive than stem's.

Not meaning to nudge you, Kishkumen ... but reinforcing your mention of the Golden Rule.

And reminding myself that I should have learned a thing or two about priorities and kindness, after years of experience and seeing what lies within my own self!

[_PrickKicker]

I only know 2 golden rules...

He who has the Gold makes the rules.

and Do unto others as you would have others do to you.

Which one are you on about?

[_Paloma]

I only know 2 golden rules...

He who has the Gold makes the rules.

and Do unto others as you would have others do to you.

Which one are you on about?

I'm "on about" the 2nd!

[_Doctor Scratch]

Talk about irony!

stem's got a lot of anger built up now. I guess he's grudging over our last clash.

It really does seem like he's got a vendetta against you, personally, for some reason.

[_Drifting]

I only know 2 golden rules...

He who has the Gold makes the rules.

and Do unto others as you would have others do to you.

Which one are you on about?

I thought it was 'do unto others before they do unto you'...

[_stemelbow]

Kishkumen,

Considering how you behave, I can't help but chuckle at your words here: "I really don't understand what is so hard to understand about the usefulness, nay, importance, of being polite and acting civil in adult society. It is so basic a principle, inculcated in all faiths and even in public schooling, that one would think it should go without saying. How these gentlemen can sit around pontificating about the usefulness and necessity of being an asshole to others shows exactly how bankrupt their thinking is."

I don't think I need make an argument for pointing out that while you say you "don't understand what is so hard to understand about the usefulness, nay, importance, of being polite and acting civil in adult society", you certainly often are impolite and act uncivil in adult society, as found right here on this board. Whether some LDS guy is also impolite and uncivil is something else.

Hey, I only post this for you because I think you can be reasonable enough to listen (I know your seething at the prospect of me pointing out your error and it most likely won't work, but you never know). Scratch, for instance, has shut off any such pretense. If it bothers you, then good. I hope it sinks in a bit, for your sake.

[_Doctor Scratch]

Even if the Good Reverend Kishkumen is occasionally uncivil or impolite, he certainly isn't trying to mount a defense in favor of that kind of behavior, ala Lance Starr, DCP, or (apparently) yourself, stemelbow. But by all means, Brother [deleted]--carry on with your vendetta.

[_Kishkumen]

Even if the Good Reverend Kishkumen is occasionally uncivil or impolite, he certainly isn't trying to mount a defense in favor of that kind of behavior, ala Lance Starr, DCP, or (apparently) yourself, stemelbow. But by all means, Brother [deleted]--carry on with your vendetta.

Yes. Exactly. Indeed, I think a number of people would attest to the fact that, of all the people around, I have at least endeavored to be fair and civil to people on all sides of the discussion. Oh, sure, there are times I have fallen short, even way short, but I always keep trying. Maybe this is what stemelbow means by me being "reasonable." But, instead of granting me any credit for trying, he has decided that any evidence of me ever falling short in this area cancels out any criticism I might ever make of anyone else. Well, undoubtedly it does in his mind, anyway.

But, this level of hyper-scrutiny seems to me to be little more than an apologetic ruse, as you recognize, Doctor. If ever I have fallen short, then I have no standing, in stemelbow's imagination, to ever marvel at stunning examples of incivility on the part of apologists who wage warfare against fellows in the faith from BYU campus with the clear agenda of marginalizing them in the eyes of others. As mind-blowing as it is, stemelbow's erroneous reasoning continues unabated.

[_stemelbow]

Yes. Exactly. Indeed, I think a number of people would attest to the fact that, of all the people around, I have at least endeavored to be fair and civil to people on all sides of the discussion. Oh, sure, there are times I have fallen short, even way short, but I always keep trying. Maybe this is what stemelbow means by me being "reasonable." But, instead of granting me any credit for trying, he has decided that any evidence of me ever falling short in this area cancels out any criticism I might ever make of anyone else. Well, undoubtedly it does in his mind, anyway.

I chuckle at your words because you too struggle to act polite and civil in adult society as seen right here on these pages. That you wish to take another to task for that is your choice. It doesn't stop me from pointing out your effort to do so sounds hypocritical, and blatantly so. I'm not trying to be mean to you. It just so happens, you need a bit of a kick in the caboose, i think. I've tried to clarify this with you time and again and yet you still get all worked up over it. One of these days, I think it'll sink in though--hopefully sooner rather than later.

But, this level of hyper-scrutiny seems to me to be little more than an apologetic ruse, as you recognize, Doctor. If ever I have fallen short, then I have no standing, in stemelbow's imagination, to ever marvel at stunning examples of incivility on the part of apologists who wage warfare against fellows in the faith from BYU campus with the clear agenda of marginalizing them in the eyes of others. As mind-blowing as it is, stemelbow's erroneous reasoning continues unabated.

NOw you're just plain putting words in my mouth. If on occasion some LDS guy goes uncivil, then so be it. He should not. And, if you on occasion get impolite and uncivil, then so be it. You should not. But to go after LDS folks for that which you do is hypocritical. The bias is heavy in your heart. I hope better for you and for all involved in Mormon Discussions.

Now go in peace and find a better way to discuss these issues. That is my plea.

[_stemelbow]

Even if the Good Reverend Kishkumen is occasionally uncivil or impolite, he certainly isn't trying to mount a defense in favor of that kind of behavior, ala Lance Starr, DCP, or (apparently) yourself, stemelbow. But by all means, Brother [deleted]--carry on with your vendetta.

That's not true and he knows it. He has often defended his poor behavior or the behavior of his partners. He does so, most often by saying, essentially, it's okay for he and his buds, like you, to behave poorly because he just does it on this board while LDS guys that he hates does it on blogs and on MDD and in apologetic publications. He tried the same tactic here, when I first showed up. When I got a chuckle about him being a bit dramatic by saying he doesn't get why others will on occasion behave uncivil and impolite and why they think it's okay to, he responded by saying, "Tell me when you find the purportedly academic journal in which I published all of my heinous attacks." Its okay to behave poorly, it seems, for him because his impolite and uncivil behavior is not found in a purportedly academic journal.