Something to make bcspace's head explode (Link)

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_PrickKicker
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Re: Something to make bcspace's head explode (Link)

Post by _PrickKicker »

Drifting wrote:The only condition is that we don't spill innocent blood.
See D&C 132 for the small print.

What time you lighting the celestial barbie?


Drifting detention after class if you quote D&C 132 in regards to Temple Sealings 1 more time... You are feeding the Mormon Delusion.

Verse 1 is the introduction to the section, there was no need for the section heading, it is propaganda.
Good men trying to cover up the mess that Joseph Smith left behind it became their jobs to start Lying for the Lord.
PrickKicker: I used to be a Narrow minded, short sighted, Lying, Racist, Homophobic, Pious, Moron. But they were all behavioral traits that I had learnt through Mormonism.
_Drifting
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Re: Something to make bcspace's head explode (Link)

Post by _Drifting »

PrickKicker wrote:
Drifting wrote:The only condition is that we don't spill innocent blood.
See D&C 132 for the small print.

What time you lighting the celestial barbie?


Drifting detention after class if you quote D&C 132 in regards to Temple Sealings 1 more time... You are feeding the Mormon Delusion.

Verse 1 is the introduction to the section, there was no need for the section heading, it is propaganda.
Good men trying to cover up the mess that Joseph Smith left behind it became their jobs to start Lying for the Lord.


26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.
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_Molok
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Re: Something to make bcspace's head explode (Link)

Post by _Molok »

schreech wrote:
bcspace wrote:
Which are conditional. Stealing other's agency...


You mean like denying gays the right to marry?

Of course not, he's referring to all those evil bastards at the ACLU who stop nativity scenes from being displayed in front of a courthouse.
_Themis
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Re: Something to make bcspace's head explode (Link)

Post by _Themis »

bcspace wrote:
If not, is MKJ then actually a Democrat?



Yes. The difference is that reasonable people let others define themselves.
42
_bcspace
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Re: Something to make bcspace's head explode (Link)

Post by _bcspace »

The only condition is that we don't spill innocent blood.


Incorrect. The appropriate verse is quoted above. The other condition is "and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise".

D&C 132:26–27 . Does Marriage in the Temple Assure One of Exaltation, No Matter How One Lives?

President Harold B. Lee taught: “Some folks have the mistaken notion that if somehow, by hook or crook, they can get into the House of the Lord and be married they are assured of exaltation regardless of what they do, and they’ll quote the 132 Section, the 26th verse . But that isn’t what the Lord means. The Lord does assure an exaltation to those who make mistakes, if they repent.” ( Cram for Life’s Final Examination, Brigham Young University Speeches of the Year [Provo, 5 Jan. 1954], p. 7.)

President Joseph Fielding Smith commented:

“ Verse 26, in Section 132 , is the most abused passage in any scripture. The Lord has never promised any soul that he may be taken into exaltation without the spirit of repentance. While repentance is not stated in this passage, yet it is, and must be, implied. It is strange to me that everyone knows about verse 26 , but it seems that they have never read or heard of Matthew 12:31–32 , where the Lord tells us the same thing in substance as we find in verse 26, section 132 . . . .

“So we must conclude that those spoken of in verse 26 are those who, having sinned, have fully repented and are willing to pay the price of their sinning, else the blessings of exaltation will not follow. Repentance is absolutely necessary for the forgiveness, and the person having sinned must be cleansed.” ( Doctrines of Salvation, 2:95–96.)

The key phrase is “and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise” ( D&C 132:26 .) This sealing is related to having one’s calling and election made sure. (See Notes and Commentary for D&C 76:53 ; 131:5 ; 132:7 .)

Speaking of the promise in Doctrine and Covenants 132:26 , Elder Bruce R. McConkie said:

“Making one’s calling and election sure comes after and grows out of celestial marriage. Eternal life does not and cannot exist for a man or a woman alone, because in its very nature it consists of the continuation of the family unit in eternity. Thus the revelation on marriage speaks both of celestial marriage (in which the conditional promises of eternal life are given) and of making one’s calling and election sure (in which the unconditional promises of eternal life are given) in one and the same sentence—which sentence also says that those who commit sins (except ‘murder whereby to shed innocent blood’) after being sealed up unto eternal life shall still gain exaltation. This is the language: ‘Then’—that is, after their calling and election has been made sure—[ D&C 132:19–20 cited].

“Then the revelation [ D&C 132:26 ] speaks of that obedience out of which eternal life grows, and still speaking both of celestial marriage and of making one’s calling and election sure says: ‘Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment’—that is, if they are both married and have their calling and election made sure . . . ‘they shall come forth in the first resurrection and enter into their exaltation.’” ( Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 3:343–44.)

“What if those whose calling and election has been made sure thereafter commit grievous sins? Suppose they backslide and walk in the ways of wickedness? Or fight the truth and rebel against God—what then?

“That all men commit sin, before and after baptism, and for that matter, before and after their calling and election is made sure, is self-evident. There has been only one Sinless One—the Lord Jesus who was God’s own Son.

“Thus in the revelation announcing the setting up of the restored church in this day, the Lord says: ‘There is a possibility that man may fall from grace and depart from the living God; Therefore let the church take heed and pray always, lest they fall into temptation; Yea, and even let those who are sanctified take heed also.’ ( D. & C. 20:32–34 .)

“The prophets and apostles from Adam and Enoch down, and all men, whether cleansed and sanctified from sin or not, are yet subject to and do in fact commit sin. This is the case even after men have seen the visions of eternity and been sealed by that Holy Spirit of Promise which makes their calling and election sure. Since these chosen ones have the sure promise of eternal life, and since ‘no unclean thing can enter into’ the Father’s ‘kingdom’ ( 3 Ne. 27:19 ), ‘or dwell in his presence’ ( Moses 6:57 ), what of sins committed after being sealed up into eternal life?

“Obviously the laws of repentance still apply, and the more enlightened a person is, the more he seeks the gift of repentance, and the harder he strives to free himself from sin as often as he falls short of the divine will and becomes subject in any degree to the Master of Sin who is Lucifer. It follows that the sins of the godfearing and the righteous are continually remitted because they repent and seek the Lord anew every day and every hour.

“And as a matter of fact, the added blessing of having one’s calling and election made sure is itself an encouragement to avoid sin and a hedge against its further commission. By that long course of obedience and trial which enabled them to gain so great a blessing the sanctified saints have charted a course and developed a pattern of living which avoids sin and encourages righteousness. Thus the Lord said: ‘I give unto you Hyrum Smith to be a patriarch unto you, to hold the sealing blessings of my church, even the Holy Spirit of promise, whereby ye are sealed up unto the day of redemption, that ye may not fall notwithstanding the hour of temptation that may come upon you. ( D. & C. 124:124 .)

“But suppose such persons become disaffected and the spirit of repentance leaves them—which is a seldom and an almost unheard of eventuality—still, what then? The answer is—and the revelations and teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith so recite!—they must then pay the penalty of their own sins, for the blood of Christ will not cleanse them. Or if they commit murder or adultery, they lose their promised inheritance because these sins are exempt from the sealing promises. Or if they commit the unpardonable sin, they become sons of perdition.” (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 3:342–43.)

http://institute.LDS.org/manuals/doctrine-and-covenants-institute-student-manual/dc-in-131-132.asp
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_bcspace
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Re: Something to make bcspace's head explode (Link)

Post by _bcspace »

Which are conditional. Stealing other's agency...

You mean like denying gays the right to marry?


No one in any state is denying gays the right to marry. The real question is should the state validate and benefit such marriages. The answer of course is no ala Romans 1:32.
Machina Sublime
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Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
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Re: Something to make bcspace's head explode (Link)

Post by _Sethbag »

As a Seventy, we must assume that Marlin K. Jensen has had his calling and election made sure. So he can afford to be a Democrat. He'll just be subject to the buffetings of Satan for 1000 years during the Millenium, but then he'll be let out and become a god and get his own planet* in the end, just like the rest of them.

*really, universe
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
_bcspace
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Re: Something to make bcspace's head explode (Link)

Post by _bcspace »

If not, is MKJ then actually a Democrat?

Yes. The difference is that reasonable people let others define themselves.


Incorrect. He would then be going against the party line. Might be okay if he publically spoke out against it, but then there would be the uncomfortable (and apostate) matter of supporting them anyway by voting for them. It's a no win damned if you do damned if you don't situation for any LDS person who is a Democrat.

As a Seventy, we must assume that Marlin K. Jensen has had his calling and election made sure. So he can afford to be a Democrat


Wouldn't matter. See the doctrine above.
Machina Sublime
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Re: Something to make bcspace's head explode (Link)

Post by _Sethbag »

Are you saying that being a Democrat is akin to denying the Holy Ghost by shedding innocent blood?
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
_PrickKicker
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Re: Something to make bcspace's head explode (Link)

Post by _PrickKicker »

Drifting wrote:26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.


D&C132
1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines—

2 Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter.

3 Therefore, prepare thy heart to receive and obey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same.

4 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.

Don't make me come over there and bitch slap you boy!
PrickKicker: I used to be a Narrow minded, short sighted, Lying, Racist, Homophobic, Pious, Moron. But they were all behavioral traits that I had learnt through Mormonism.
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