Are we sure we know who Mary is?

Post by **_just me** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:55 pm

Mary looks really white to me. I don't think she was so white.

Post by **_madeleine** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:05 pm

just me wrote:Mary looks really white to me. I don't think she was so white.

From a shrine in France:

A mural in Salt Lake City:

Post by **_madeleine** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:08 pm

zeezrom wrote:
madeleine wrote:
Indeed.

Madeleine,

I really shouldn't address these kinds of questions to a Catholic out of respect. I am trying to address the issue of lack of imagination within Mormon theology.

No worries, any Catholic who has had interactions with Mormons, have had the discussion which compares the Mormon idea of Heavenly Mother to the Catholic Blessed Virgin Mary.

"Mary is not divine", is a most important distinction (which I think even some Catholics don't get).

Post by **_zeezrom** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:20 pm

madeleine wrote:"Mary is not divine", is a most important distinction (which I think even some Catholics don't get).

Mormons are one of the few groups in the world that have the ability to make her doctrinally divine but don't want/dare to.

Post by **_madeleine** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:21 pm

zeezrom wrote:
madeleine wrote:"Mary is not divine", is a most important distinction (which I think even some Catholics don't get).

Mormons are one of the few groups in the world that have the ability to make her doctrinally divine but don't want/dare to.

Very heretical to Catholic ears. :biggrin:

Even blasphemous.

Post by **_Dr. Shades** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:28 pm

zeezrom wrote:Are we sure she isn't Heavenly Mother? Is there a chance she is sitting up there on her throne next to Heavenly Father, equal in power and might?

According to Mormon doctrine, no to both questions. Heavenly Mother already had a body of flesh and bone from before the pre-existence, like God the Father did, otherwise she couldn't have been the progenitor of our spirit bodies. Therefore, she was unable to "die" (body and spirit separate) so that she could enter into a new mortal body, i.e. Mary. Plus, once Celestialized, beings don't undergo mortality a second time.

Has this idea been considered by Mormon scholars?

No, because Mormon doctrine obviates it.

Post by **_zeezrom** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:29 pm

madeleine wrote:Very heretical to Catholic ears. :biggrin: Even blasphemous.

Do you think it would sound blasphemous to hear a Mormon say Abraham is doctrinally divine?

D&C 132:37

Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.

Post by **_madeleine** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:37 pm

zeezrom wrote:
madeleine wrote:Very heretical to Catholic ears. Even blasphemous.

Do you think it would sound blasphemous to hear a Mormon say Abraham is doctrinally divine?

D&C 132:37
Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.

From Mormon doctrine, there is a whole pantheon of gods and goddesses. Most LDS I've had discussions would never see it that way, or admit so if they did. But Mormons have a way of believing opposing ideas. I think they can believe one thing now....5 seconds later...can believe another thing. Just can't believe both in the same 5 seconds. Very irrational to my mind.

If I were still Mormon, I would be miffed at not being able to talk to my mom.

Post by **_zeezrom** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:43 pm

Dr. Shades wrote:Heavenly Mother already had a body of flesh and bone from before the pre-existence, like God the Father did, otherwise she couldn't have been the progenitor of our spirit bodies. Therefore, she was unable to "die" (body and spirit separate) so that she could enter into a new mortal body, i.e. Mary. Plus, once Celestialized, beings don't undergo mortality a second time.

Wow, so many rules the Gods must abide by!

Post by **_madeleine** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:44 pm

How does the Adam-God doctrine of BY fit into that rule?

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