The government of the CK

[_moksha]

I mean it is kind of sad to think of a world in which we don't want or need. It feels robotic.

Not really robotic since even in such a Utopia kvetching will be allowed.

[_Harold Lee]

The Celestial Kingdom will have unlimited resources? I suppose that means everyone drives huge pickup trucks to the giant grocery store.

Absolutely! Because why not?

But the vehicles run on spirit juice instead of gas. Better for the environment.

[_Chap]

Whenever I read threads like this, in which people attempt to make any detailed sense of what continuing consciousness after bodily decay would be like, the rapid descent of the discussion into either dogmatic assertion or speculative absurdity confirms me in my belief that the whole thing is simply nonsensical. It just ain't gonna happen, people.

[_Droopy]

Whenever I read threads like this, in which people attempt to make any detailed sense of what continuing consciousness after bodily decay would be like, the rapid descent of the discussion into either dogmatic assertion or speculative absurdity confirms me in my belief that the whole thing is simply nonsensical. It just ain't gonna happen, people.

Your utter lack of a sound, rational basis or logical argument supporting such an assertion is even more interesting.

[_Chap]

Whenever I read threads like this, in which people attempt to make any detailed sense of what continuing consciousness after bodily decay would be like, the rapid descent of the discussion into either dogmatic assertion or speculative absurdity confirms me in my belief that the whole thing is simply nonsensical. It just ain't gonna happen, people.

Your utter lack of a sound, rational basis or logical argument supporting such an assertion is even more interesting.

Oh, I don't know about lack of a rational basis:

Mormon statements about what the supposed CK will be like give me the 'dogmatic assertion' bit.

People arguing about whether there will be pickup trucks in the CK: speculative absurdity.

Of course if by 'lack of a sound, rational basis' Droopy means 'not assenting to the factual validity of the teachings of the CoJCoLDS on the subject of what happens to people after death', then I can only say that he has got me there.

(Do I have to argue at length that the burden of proof is on those who assert that, contrary to all observation, human experience continues after the body has died?)

[_Harold Lee]

Oh, I don't know about lack of a rational basis:

Mormon statements about what the supposed CK will be like give me the 'dogmatic assertion' bit.

People arguing about whether there will be pickup trucks in the CK: speculative absurdity.

Of course if by 'lack of a sound, rational basis' Droopy means 'not assenting to the factual validity of the teachings of the CoJCoLDS on the subject of what happens to people after death', then I can only say that he has got me there.

(Do I have to argue at length that the burden of proof is on those who assert that, contrary to all observation, human experience continues after the body has died?)

Actually we won't need pickup trucks because there won't be any supplies we need to live off of. We won't need anything to sleep on, won't need tables or kitchens, won't need entertainment, clothing. Maybe furniture but why would you need it? What would you put on it? Won't need lamps since there aren't deep shadows and we can see into darkness anyways. Won't need scripture to put on the table since we'll have a perfect knowledge. I guess our mansions will consist of unused furniture and house plants? Won't need bedrooms, bathrooms, kitchens.

I think our mansions will basically be like chapels in stake centers, tons of chairs for entertaining guests, and always talking about the gospel. Maybe a throne.

Anything with the word "forever" and "perfect" isn't real. They're concepts that help us differentiate and appreciate experiences in life. Like the concept of infinity, helps you to draw inferences and understand limits and patterns, but has no practical applications. Everything is shades of gray, but black and white are necessary concepts for understanding it. Why heaven is always the embodiment of perfection, and hell is the embodiment of chaos. They're concepts that evolve to always set the standard people have in mind for what bliss or chaos entails, but they're not real places you spend eternity. That's something to be thankful for, I don't want to spend forever doing any number of the same things or want people to spend forever in torment for buying into this system that's designed for tricking people into thinking god isn't real so they're tested to exercise faith and not think about it deeply in order to believe in him. They're punished forever for believing the test, people that don't and just go by faith anyways. The whole logistics about the plan of salvation are messed up lol.

[_honorentheos]

A great thread, Zee, that lead to interesting follow-on questions.

First, Droopy brings up a good point, if only to fail to think it through. His good point being economics is the study of scarce resources. Despite his ridiculous projection of “mortal” resources into a celestial sphere, it makes for a fun, party-philosophy question: what are the most scarce resources in the CK? Or what would serve as “currency”? Would it be intelligences, the raw material of Godhood? If God is increasing in Glory, what actually is increasing? And is it a scarce resource in heaven? Questions like that come to mind.

What makes your question even more fun is it can highlight the inherent paradox in Mormon theology: On the one hand, per Nephi we are saved after all that we can do (suggesting a merit-based “economy” of glory or what have you), but at the same time we are unworthy and are saved by grace. So on the one hand, God is potentially a spiritual "capitalist", especially if one assumes that God does not actually hold a prime position in the universe so one’s ascendancy to Godhood is “earned” by obedience to laws even God can not disobey.

But on the other hand, there is no denying that grace is essentially a “communist” notion. We all share in Christ’s “worthiness” and could not earn it on our own.

How does a conservative true believer get over that fact? That no one truly earns their way into heaven? It's "The (Celestial) State" that even makes it possible to dream of exhaltation, let alone achieve it.