Stormy Waters wrote:Basically you've written Joseph Smith a moral blank check. It doesn't matter what he did. Tell me, is there any sin or offense that Joseph Smith could have committed that would bother you? The scriptures don't support this line of thinking.
Matthew 7:15 - 20.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
I'll judge the prophet by his fruits.
False prophets teach against speaking with God and doing as he asks. Joseph Smith taught people TO seek God and do as he asks. The reason I don't care about Joseph Smith is my salvation and understanding of God is not between Joseph Smith and myself. It is between myself and God as it properly should be.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin wrote:False prophets teach against speaking with God and doing as he asks. Joseph Smith taught people TO seek God and do as he asks. The reason I don't care about Joseph Smith is my salvation and understanding of God is not between Joseph Smith and myself. It is between myself and God as it properly should be.
Okay. So long as prophets tell you to seek God they get a moral blank check to do whatever. Fantastic.
Tobin wrote:False prophets teach against speaking with God and doing as he asks. Joseph Smith taught people TO seek God and do as he asks. The reason I don't care about Joseph Smith is my salvation and understanding of God is not between Joseph Smith and myself. It is between myself and God as it properly should be.
Okay. So long as prophets tell you to seek God they get a moral blank check to do whatever. Fantastic.
I didn't say that. I just said it doesn't matter. The message of Joseph Smith is God speaks, and that we each should speak with God to know the truth ourselves. Unfortunatley this message has been garbled a bit over time by the Church, but it is still there if you look for it. Believe in Joseph Smith and in the Book of Mormon if God tells you to; otherwise, DO NOT. Nobody is forcing anyone to believe it.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin wrote: I didn't say that. I just said it doesn't matter. The message of Joseph Smith is God speaks, and that we each should speak with God to know the truth ourselves. Unfortunatley this message has been garbled a bit over time by the Church, but it is still there if you look for it. Believe in Joseph Smith and in the Book of Mormon if God tells you to; otherwise, DO NOT. Nobody is forcing anyone to believe it.
Tobin wrote: I didn't say that. I just said it doesn't matter. The message of Joseph Smith is God speaks, and that we each should speak with God to know the truth ourselves. Unfortunatley this message has been garbled a bit over time by the Church, but it is still there if you look for it. Believe in Joseph Smith and in the Book of Mormon if God tells you to; otherwise, DO NOT. Nobody is forcing anyone to believe it.
Do you know how to stay on a topic?
Yes, and I'm responding to a post by Stormy about my views if you weren't following along. Please try to keep up.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin has me on ignore, due to his habit of putting people on ignore when they say things he can't refute. While Tobin is sharing his wonderful message with you about how the voices in his head refute objective reality, here is a question from a previous thread you might pose to him:
Two 20 year-old boys come to your house and tell you that they have a sacred book that has a divine message from God. The book says that we should be honest and virtuous, that we should treat other people kindly. However, the book is based on the premise that Rodney Dangerfield is a Martian who became the President of the United States. The boys tell you to pray about the book. You read some parts from the book about kindness and compassion to others, pray about it, and feel very strongly that God wants us to act the way the book tells us to. A couple days later, you tell the two boys that you had this experience. The boys tell you this is proof that the book is a true story. Should you now accept as fact the proposition that Rodney Dangerfield was a Martian who became the President of the United States?
Tobin wrote:Believe in Joseph Smith and in the Book of Mormon if God tells you to; otherwise, DO NOT. Nobody is forcing anyone to believe it.
No, but for more than 20 years of my life, at the front end, the social cajoling I (and many like me) received growing up to believe that nonsense was suffocating. Only when I took the chance to give my self a little room to examine LDS claims, was I able to breathe, get a little oxygen to my brain, and recognize and call those claims what they are, BS.