for what it's worth, my review of Greg Smith's "review" of Mormon Stories

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_Doctor Scratch
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Re: for what it's worth, my review of Greg Smith's "review" of Mormon Stori

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Rollo:

An absolutely outstanding review. Brilliant work here.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Darth J
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Re: for what it's worth, my review of Greg Smith's "review" of Mormon Stori

Post by _Darth J »

Further to Reverend Kishkumen's comments, Greg Smith's recent attempt on Facebook to have John Dehlin list and confess all of his sins, as if he's in some communist re-education camp, and Dehlin's concomitant failure to tell Smith to go “F” himself, somewhat precludes the idea that this whole affair is about rational adults living in the real world.
_consiglieri
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Re: for what it's worth, my review of Greg Smith's "review" of Mormon Stori

Post by _consiglieri »

Dear Rollo,

I printed off your essay and am only halfway done reading it, but I think it is well done and I appreciate all the time and effort you put into it.

Hopefully at some point Greg Smith will read your essay and find out what real scholarship looks like.

Which actually makes me think of an idea . . . have you considered submitting it to the MI for publication?

That could provide fodder for part two . . . sort of like Smith's RUR.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
_Res Ipsa
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Re: for what it's worth, my review of Greg Smith's "review" of Mormon Stori

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Nice analysis, Rollo. I hope it gets published in the next Cassius Cwarterly.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_sock puppet
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Re: for what it's worth, my review of Greg Smith's "review" of Mormon Stori

Post by _sock puppet »

Thanks, Rollo. This is on the order and magnitude of MsJack's expose about Schryver's misogyny.
_Kishkumen
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Re: for what it's worth, my review of Greg Smith's "review" of Mormon Stori

Post by _Kishkumen »

Darth J wrote:Further to Reverend Kishkumen's comments, Greg Smith's recent attempt on Facebook to have John Dehlin list and confess all of his sins, as if he's in some communist re-education camp, and Dehlin's concomitant failure to tell Smith to go “F” himself, somewhat precludes the idea that this whole affair is about rational adults living in the real world.


You have to be truly amazed by the kind of shamelessness whereby Greg Smith falsely condemns John Dehlin, defames him to the world, and then has the chutzpah to go on Dehlin's Facebook page to call him to repentance. What kind of twisted screw does that kind of thing? Is Greg Smith some kind of sociopath? I am having trouble imagining how someone rationalizes this kind of utterly shameless behavior, carried out in the name of his faith.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Gadianton
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Re: for what it's worth, my review of Greg Smith's "review" of Mormon Stori

Post by _Gadianton »

Hi Rollo,

No need to apologize for the length, your OP is an outstanding, scholarly work of scholarship. My two favorite sections were four and eight, partly no doubt because I only read the first of Greg's sections and so I covered this material myself. The quote you demonstrated was concocted and thus making the strong claim that MormonThink is universally the best source for information on the Church blew my mind. I had been suckered into this quote. When I read it, I had just assumed it was one of many things Dehlin has said that I thought was lame, but at the same time, not that big of deal. And it turns out, he was not saying this at all. He was saying it was better than FARMS, FAIR, and LDS.org. In the grafted portion of the quote, the context was mainly between MormonThink and FAIR. His full quote gives some explanation when he points out that FAIR is at their weakest when they attack critics in "un-Christian" fashion. This fits in with Dehlin's key issue with apologists, that their attitude is not healthy. Darth J did a great parody of MT, but thinking about that parody, he showed that MT takes "objectivity" seriously to a fault in the sense that they try to present the arguments from both sides as they understand the issue without making personal attacks. In context, Dehlin's quote makes a lot more sense. As a profiler and critic of Dehlin, there might be a case that his bias is too strong in the direction of attitude and civility when it comes to sorting between critics and apologists, he may disregard too readily apologetic arguments because of the oft hostility behind them, and then further discounts because of expectations for how members of the true church should act. A good profiler of Dehlin might look for details in the context that explain his position when Dehlin isn't totally clear, and then consider the merits or drawbacks. Instead, by eliminated all context, clues, and then cutting and grafting, Dehlin is made out to 1) hold a so-so website as the ultimate source of truth about Mormonism and 2) consider an "anti" site 50x more unreliable than a "pro" site seemingly out of sheer prejudice; ridiculous-sounding positions.

Point eight was also very good. Greg's hair splitting and footnoted lecture on precisely what pieces of armor were made of steel in the Book of Mormon when Dehlin was asking, in an interview, the subject-matter expert in this interview, Michael Coe, "hey what about steel swords and shields or whatever...." was insane.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

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_Ceeboo
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Re: for what it's worth, my review of Greg Smith's "review" of Mormon Stori

Post by _Ceeboo »

Hey Rollo :smile:

Is there an audio version for this OP?


Peace,
Ceeboo
_Mayan Elephant
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Re: for what it's worth, my review of Greg Smith's "review" of Mormon Stori

Post by _Mayan Elephant »

Rollo, excellent! very well done.

thank you for your time. holy crap. that was a huge contribution on your part. thank you.

best,
"Rocks don't speak for themselves" is an unfortunate phrase to use in defense of a book produced by a rock actually 'speaking' for itself... (I have a Question, 5.15.15)
_Blixa
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Re: for what it's worth, my review of Greg Smith's "review" of Mormon Stori

Post by _Blixa »

Kishkumen wrote:
Darth J wrote:Further to Reverend Kishkumen's comments, Greg Smith's recent attempt on Facebook to have John Dehlin list and confess all of his sins, as if he's in some communist re-education camp, and Dehlin's concomitant failure to tell Smith to go “F” himself, somewhat precludes the idea that this whole affair is about rational adults living in the real world.


You have to be truly amazed by the kind of shamelessness whereby Greg Smith falsely condemns John Dehlin, defames him to the world, and then has the chutzpah to go on Dehlin's Facebook page to call him to repentance. What kind of twisted screw does that kind of thing? Is Greg Smith some kind of sociopath? I am having trouble imagining how someone rationalizes this kind of utterly shameless behavior, carried out in the name of his faith.


No kidding. The worst part of these shenanigans is how infantilizing they are. "Scholarship" is reduced to Facebook stalking and gossip---the métier of bullying teenagers---and the intended audience is patronized as children who need bogeymen stories to "protect" them.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
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