Newsroom responds to media attention

[_maklelan]

My observation is that you and your friends are truly an exception to the herd.

I disagree.

That is my point and why I do not blame the members for their lack of knowledge as you do.

I don't know any Latter-day Saints who have any interest in studying the Church or the gospel who stick unilaterally to official Church curriculum.

[_maklelan]

Certainly not.
I listened intently to the members of the Church that God decided should be called to teach me.
I listened to Conference Talks and to what Apostles had to say on the matter (although i did miss that one time, at band camp, in 1993 when the Ensign was being passed around).
I read my manuals.
I read my official Church History.
I resisted, as I was taught to resist, going looking at non official resources.

Can you point to examples of non-lay members teaching you not to read non-official literature?

I guess you were just disobedient.

No. I was never told I'm not allowed to read non-official resources.

That's what being born in the Church does for you.

I think your upbringing within your family and your education probably has more influence than just the fact of being born in the covenant.

That's exactly why these essays are being put out there.
That's why activity rates are running at 36% worldwide (20% in Europe).
Because there's far more members like me than there are like you.

You are saying that inactivity is unilaterally a result of not studying non-official literature about Church history and then becoming disillusioned with things you've later discovered? If not, just what amount of inactivity is a result of that?

[_Tator]

My observation is that you and your friends are truly an exception to the herd.

I disagree.

That is my point and why I do not blame the members for their lack of knowledge as you do.

I don't know any Latter-day Saints who have any interest in studying the Church or the gospel who stick unilaterally to official Church curriculum.

And how about the investigator's that the 80K are working on. How do they get a fair shot b4 they are dunked? When does it become their fault for not knowing all this stuff? Immediately? A week after? A month? A year?

You are truly an exception to the herd.

[_maklelan]

And how about the investigator's that the 80K are working on. How do they get a fair shot b4 they are dunked? When does it become their fault for not knowing all this stuff? Immediately? A week after? A month? A year?

Hopefully you don't seriously think I'm suggesting this is a linear, measurable, or unilateral concept.

You are truly an exception to the herd.

I usually assume the members with whom I'm interacting, even at work, are generally unaware of most if not all of these issues, and yet I'm almost always surprised by how much research people have actually done if I bring any of the issues up. Again, I don't think I've ever met anyone who has stuck unilaterally to correlated publications when it came to studying the gospel. In my current ward, into which I moved only in June, I've been asked by a bunch of people to recommend good non-correlated and non-Church publications they can read to better understand the Old Testament. I've been asked that numerous, numerous times over the years for each of the four topics in the cycle. Most of the time the people who don't bother reading outside the curriculum are also the people who don't bother reading inside the curriculum.

[_Bazooka]

Can you point to examples of non-lay members teaching you not to read non-official literature?

Teaching - No Greater Call (Russell M Ballard)

For the past several years, I have served as Executive Director of the Church Curriculum Department.

<snip>

Let me give you an example. The present Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Supplement, which was prepared to help teachers teach the New Testament, was written by a committee of faithful and knowledgeable Church-service writers, who were called and set apart for that service by one of the General Authorities. Their work commenced in the spring of 1980, following General Authority approval of the outline. Writing committee members spent thousands of hours researching, writing, and attending biweekly committee meetings, where the entire committee critiqued each lesson carefully and suggested improvements. The work of the writing committee then was reviewed by General Authority Managing Directors of the Priesthood and Curriculum departments, the General Presidency and the General Board of the Sunday School, Church Editing, and Church Correlation Review. This manual received careful scrutiny at many levels before it was approved for use in Sunday School this year. All teaching materials for the Church follow this same basic procedure in their preparation.

Teachers would be well advised to study carefully the scriptures and their manuals before reaching out for supplemental materials. Far too many teachers seem to stray from the approved curriculum materials without fully reviewing them. If teachers feel a need to use some good supplemental resources beyond the scriptures and manuals in presenting a lesson, they should first consider the use of the Church magazines.

Teachers can stay on safe ground when they use the standard works, the approved manuals, and the writings of the General Authorities. Elder Hyrum M. Smith of the Council of the Twelve said, “There is more to be learned in five minutes reading in the Holy Scriptures, more that is worthy of retention in the memory, more that will be helpful if we remember and obey them, than we can find in reading all of the six best sellers in every month in the year.” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1917, p. 38.)

I believe there is no greater call in the Church than to be an effective teacher. Effective teaching by the Spirit can stir the souls of men with a desire to live the principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ more completely.

In each teaching setting, whether it is a family home evening, a class, a sacrament meeting, or a general or stake conference, the teacher should strive to create a heartfelt desire in his students to live worthy of eternal life with our Heavenly Father.

Regarding the need of effective teaching in the Church, President Kimball gave this counsel: “Please take a particular interest in strengthening and improving the quality of teaching in the Church. … I fear at times that all too often many of our members come to church, sit through a class or meeting, and then return home having been largely uninformed. … We all need to be touched and nurtured by the Spirit, and effective teaching is one of the most important ways this can happen.” (Ensign, May 1981, p. 45.)

The Apostle Paul placed the priority of teachers in the Church next only to the Apostles and the prophets when he said, “And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers.” (1 Cor. 12:28.)

President Brigham Young used the following story to illustrate the potential influence of teachers: “A traveller in the Eastern country overtook an old gentleman walking towards a town, and asked him, ‘Who is the great man of that little town? Who is your leading man? Who is the governor and controlling spirit of that little place?’ The old gentleman replied, ‘I am the king of that little town.’ ‘Really,’ says the traveller, ‘are you the leading man?’ ‘Yes, sir, I am king in that place, and reign as king.’ ‘How do you make this to appear? Are you in affluent circumstances?’ ‘No, I am poor; but in that little village there are so many children. All those children go to my school; I rule the children, and they rule their parents, and that makes me king.’” (Journal of Discourses, 9:39.)

President David O. McKay said, “No greater responsibility can rest upon any man, than to be a teacher of God’s children.” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1916, p. 57.)

May we ask you priesthood leaders who call your members to become teachers to be prayerful and concerned when selecting those who will teach in your stakes, wards, or quorums. Be sure to provide ongoing in-service teacher training. Visit the classrooms on occasion, and express genuine interest in the great cause of teaching. Please do not leave this most important work unattended.

The Lord set the example when he sent Paul to the home of Ananias. The Lord did not leave him to flounder in his newly found faith, but rather, as recorded in the ninth chapter of Acts, Paul received specific training to become a mighty gospel teacher and Apostle.

Should not every teaching setting within the Church be a forum of faith, where the teacher strengthens spirituality and fosters faith in the lives of those being taught?

President J. Reuben Clark’s instructions to a group of professional teachers apply to all teachers in the Church. He said, “Your essential and all but sole duty, is to teach the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. … You are to teach this Gospel using as your sources and authorities the Standard Works of the Church, and the words of those whom God has called to lead His people in these last days. You are not … to intrude into your work your own peculiar philosophy, no matter what its source or how pleasing or rational it seems to you to be.” (“The Charted Course of the Church in Education” [an address delivered at the Brigham Young University Summer School in Aspen Grove, Utah, 8 Aug. 1938, p. 9].)

Jesus chided the Sadducees for their incorrect teachings. He said, “Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.” (Matt. 22:29.) The Lord stressed the need for prayerful preparation by teachers, as recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants: “And the Spirit shall be given unto you by the prayer of faith; and if ye receive not the Spirit ye shall not teach.” (D&C 42:14.)

One of the great teachers in my life, President N. Eldon Tanner, said: “In my opinion no greater call can come to anyone than to be a teacher in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We are all teachers in one way or another, whether we have been called and set apart as such or not.” (“Teaching Children of God,” Ensign, Oct. 1980, p. 2.)

Surely no teachers in the Church are more important than fathers and mothers. No classroom is more important than the home. Parents have been commanded to teach their children the gospel. (See D&C 68:25.)

My brothers and sisters, I believe that every human soul is teaching something to someone nearly every minute here in mortality. May we consider with great reverence the trust that the Lord has placed in us to “teach one another the doctrine of the kingdom.” (D&C 88:77.)

May I urge each member of the Church, when you are serving as a teacher, to remember that every human soul is precious to our Father in Heaven, for we are all his children. God’s children are entitled to be taught the truths of the gospel in clear and understandable terms so that the Spirit can confirm the truths of the gospel to them.

My plea to the teachers of the Church is to study, ponder, and pray for guidance in your preparation. Use the scriptures and the approved curriculum materials, teaching with the objective to bless and inspire the lives of those assigned to you. Let us also remember that some of the most effective activation work in the Church is accomplished by those teachers who reach out to the inactive, loving and teaching them until they are once again in full fellowship with the Saints.

https://www.LDS.org/general-conference/ ... l?lang=eng

[_Tator]

And how about the investigator's that the 80K are working on. How do they get a fair shot b4 they are dunked? When does it become their fault for not knowing all this stuff? Immediately? A week after? A month? A year?

Hopefully you don't seriously think I'm suggesting this is a linear, measurable, or unilateral concept.

You are truly an exception to the herd.

I usually assume the members with whom I'm interacting, even at work, are generally unaware of most if not all of these issues, and yet I'm almost always surprised by how much research people have actually done if I bring any of the issues up. Again, I don't think I've ever met anyone who has stuck unilaterally to correlated publications when it came to studying the gospel. In my current ward, into which I moved only in June, I've been asked by a bunch of people to recommend good non-correlated and non-Church publications they can read to better understand the Old Testament. I've been asked that numerous, numerous times over the years for each of the four topics in the cycle. Most of the time the people who don't bother reading outside the curriculum are also the people who don't bother reading inside the curriculum.

The problem here Mak is that you work in an exceptional herd. I am approaching this from the view point of an investigator, new member, Molly Mormon, Peter Priesthood holder, rank and file member or in other words the view point of the herd of sheeple not COB workers.

No I do not think you think this is linear because you want to blame the member no matter how long they have been in the church or how much they have read or should have known.

[_Bazooka]

That's exactly why these essays are being put out there.
That's why activity rates are running at 36% worldwide (20% in Europe).
Because there's far more members like me than there are like you.

You are saying that inactivity is unilaterally a result of not studying non-official literature about Church history and then becoming disillusioned with things you've later discovered? If not, just what amount of inactivity is a result of that?

Oh...I don't know...how about going with Elder Jensen's estimate of this particular problem...."droves".

[_Bazooka]

I think your upbringing within your family and your education probably has more influence than just the fact of being born in the covenant.

"...upbringing within your family..."

I think you need to explain that comment.

[_Lloyd Dobler]

Maklelan, when the lack of knowledge on this issue is as pervasive as it has been, the fault does not lie entirely at the feet of the members.

I'm not saying any blame is entirely with either side. The Church has downplayed and marginalized that kind of stuff in the past, and even though it's making efforts to be more transparent right now, it still has a long way to go. To say the blame sits entirely at the Church's door is also misrepresentative, in my opinion. Members can find this stuff with little problem if they look for it.

At the very least, the church shares responsibility for not making the information more readily available resulting in so many members being misinformed.

I agree.

Mak, before the essays, where exactly could members go to readily find this information?

[_Fence Sitter]

Again, I don't think I've ever met anyone who has stuck unilaterally to correlated publications when it came to studying the gospel..

I would love to introduce you to my parents.

I once tried to get my dad to go to the JSPP site to look at some of the documents there. After explaining it was a church run site that contained photos of original documents created by Joseph Smith or his scribes, my fathers first question was "Is this an Anti site?"

When RSR first came out I encouraged many friends and family to read it. I would say that at least 50% of those conversations included some form of the question "Is this a book critical of the church?"

I think Mak you underestimate the effects that church (and by church I mean both leadership and membership at large) has had on members to stay away from anything that might be critical, especially those who did not grow up in the internet age.

Here are just a few items I can think of off the top of my head that indicate the church has been intentionally hiding its past from the members.

1. The inaccurate way the Church continues to represent in official publications the method Joseph Smith used to translate.

2. We can look at the Hoffman affair and see how the Church operated in the background through anonymous buyers to purchase documents they thought were real and which they tried to keep secret after they obtained them.

3. How many instances can you point to where the Church has published photos of either the seer stone or divining rod it has in its possession or even mention that they actually possess such items? Or for that matter has the Church ever published an actual inventory of what it has in the 1st presidency's vault?

4. We can look at qualified scholars whose work has involved items in the Church possession who had legitimate reasons to view such items and were refused. For example the access to the Joseph Smith papyri to anyone outside the Church, up until recently has not been available, and even now it is not available to world class scholars like Robert Ritner. The only non LDS scholar I know that has been allowed to examine it in a tightly controlled situation is Chris Smith. If I recall correctly he was not allowed to even take pictures.

5. We can look at BKP speech (The mantle is Far Far greater than the intellect), one that was scheduled for publication in the Ensign, as an obvious attempt to influence members who were scholars and teachers to be more concerned with building faith than providing an accurate portrayal of Church History. (Or his interactions with historians in general - See Quinn)

6. How many members know that Joseph Smith, BY and John Taylor were anointed King to "reign over the Mormon people"? Why can't we read the Council of the Fifty minutes?

7. We now have prophets that are unwilling to openly admit that we believe that we can become mini Gods. "I don't know that we teach that...." sort of thing.

8. When is the last time someone stood up in Church and actually spoke in tongues? When is the last time there was a church sponsored discussion about what speaking in tongues actually meant to early Church members?

9. President Benson, in 1976 asked members, especially teachers not to purchase writings from known apostates. At this time the only place to find embarrassing accurate information, along with a whole lot of inaccurate information was from people like the Tanners.

10. The John Taylor 1886 revelation on polygamy along with the minutes of the meeting of the First Presidency and of the Quorum of the 12 referring to it.

11. Continuous denials on the part of some of the leadership that BY ever taught Adam-God and that it was part of the St George endowment ceremony.

12. The need in the 1970's for the "Mormon Underground press".

13. The emphasis on "faith promoting stories" that didn't happen (like the Cricket Story" or the "Milk Strippings Story) and avoiding information about how Joseph Smith practiced polygamy in all correlated material.

14. Early doctrines and practices that no longer are important and not mentioned such as the Law of Consecration, the Law of Adoption, the Holy Order, The Council of the Fifty and the 2nd Anointing.

15. How many members know the second anointing is still being given?

16. Why is the office of the Church Patriarch no longer filled or even talked about?

17. Why did Arrington get fired and the direction toward more openness get squashed? By the way Arrington himself referred to Church History as "cosmetized".

18. James Allen said "that if the Church had treated its history in an open and sensitive manner there would be no shock affect for people reading "New History".

19. Keeping the KEP hidden for well over a century and refusing to allow even BYU scholars to examine it when its existence became known to them in the 1930's.