Alpha & Omega: A Book of Mormon anachronistic blooper

[_Dr Exiled]

I think ole joe is correct when be says the plates didn't contain greek. He should know because he made up the plates. So, of course his fantasy plates didn't contain greek or french or whatever. They contained pictures of the teenage girls he imagined he would bed someday.

[_Shulem]

The only thing that matters is that the translator (which was God, not Joseph Smith) considered those words and expressions in English to be the most appropriate vocabulary with which to translate them.

The church officially ascribes Joseph Smith as the "translator" through the gift and power of God. God was NOT the translator! The Book of Mormon is the creation of Joseph Smith's own mind, all the expressions came from his mind as he was supposedly enlightened by the power and influence of the Holy Ghost using the gift of translation. He didn't even use the gold plates to translate. That's Mormon folklore. He translated via a stone in a hat. Occult magic.

Joseph Smith elected to incorporate New Testament doctrine of Alpha & Omega in Mormon Jesus's sermon to the Nephites. There was nothing inspired about it. Infact, it was completely uninspired because it's out of place and inappropriate to the times, an inaccurate use of one language melded into another language.

It was a boner.

[_I have a question]

The only thing that matters is that the translator (which was God, not Joseph Smith) considered those words and expressions in English to be the most appropriate vocabulary with which to translate them.

In which case, account for ‘Curelom’ and ‘Cumom’...

[_Shulem]

The only thing that matters is that the translator (which was God, not Joseph Smith) considered those words and expressions in English to be the most appropriate vocabulary with which to translate them.

In which case, account for ‘Curelom’ and ‘Cumom’...

"I am the light and the life of the world. I am Curelom and Cumom, the beginning and the end." (New Mormon Jesus)

But what do to about Timothy, one of the 12 disciples? How is it he got his Greek name?

[_Shulem]

But what do to about Timothy, one of the 12 disciples? How is it he got his Greek name?

Is it possible that the angel of the Lord appeared to the babe's mother while he was still in the womb and told her to name him, "Timothy". That must be the answer. Plus, that proves the Book of Mormon is true.

[_CameronMO]

Alpha and Omega - as dictated by Joseph Smith.
Has no bearing on what language was written on the plates. The translation of the plates is not claimed to be a linguistic endeavor.
If you believe the Book of Mormon from God (which we know you don't) then it isn't that complicated to figure out that whatever words were used on the plates meant the same thing as Alpha and Omega.

There were no plates to translate. I think Dieter already addressed that with his iPhone analogy.

[_zerinus]

Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery were smart enough to know that Mormon Jesus would need to use a Nephite coin, "senine" when quoting a New Testament sermon because had he used farthing it would have made no sense to his listeners. The Nephites couldn't have known what a farthing was. Right? Yes or no?

Well, the same holds true with the New Testament sermon of Alpha & Omega. It's all Greek and the Nephites didn't know Greek and couldn't have known what Jesus was saying, thus we see, Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery in their ignorance dropped the ball. It's not just an inconsistency but an anachronism. Letters or symbols known to the Nephites should have been used and reflected in the translation as was the Nephite coin, senine.

You've not addressed that, zerinus. There simply is not an intelligent apologetic excuse you can offer to cover for Smith's and Cowdery's blunder -- that warms my heart. You do realize this is just one Book of Mormon anachronism of many? One right after the other. It's a clear cut pattern in showing it's a sloppy work of fiction.

"Alpha and Omega" may be of Greek origin, but like thousands of other Greek, Latin, French, German, Hebrew, Arabic etc. words has now entered the English language and is a part of the English vocabulary. See here for more examples. Calling something "Alpha and Omega" is not "Greek" anymore, it is English; just as saying that I am full of "joy" today is not talking in French, but in English.

[_Runtu]

"Alpha and Omega" may be of Greek origin, but like thousands of other Greek, Latin, French, German, Hebrew, Arabic etc. words has now entered the English language and is a part of the English vocabulary. See here for more examples. Calling something "Alpha and Omega" is not "Greek" anymore, it is English; just as saying that I am full of "joy" today is not talking in French, but in English.

The flip side of that is that you can't point to any word or name in the Book of Mormon as evidence of antiquity. You can't say "Timothy" is English and therefore not an indication that the Nephites knew a Greek name while at the same time saying "sheum" is an Akkadian word for grain. They must both be considered English words.

[_Shulem]

Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery were smart enough to know that Mormon Jesus would need to use a Nephite coin, "senine" when quoting a New Testament sermon because had he used farthing it would have made no sense to his listeners. The Nephites couldn't have known what a farthing was. Right? Yes or no?

Well, the same holds true with the New Testament sermon of Alpha & Omega. It's all Greek and the Nephites didn't know Greek and couldn't have known what Jesus was saying, thus we see, Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery in their ignorance dropped the ball. It's not just an inconsistency but an anachronism. Letters or symbols known to the Nephites should have been used and reflected in the translation as was the Nephite coin, senine.

You've not addressed that, zerinus. There simply is not an intelligent apologetic excuse you can offer to cover for Smith's and Cowdery's blunder -- that warms my heart. You do realize this is just one Book of Mormon anachronism of many? One right after the other. It's a clear cut pattern in showing it's a sloppy work of fiction.

"Alpha and Omega" may be of Greek origin, but like thousands of other Greek, Latin, French, German, Hebrew, Arabic etc. words has now entered the English language and is a part of the English vocabulary. See here for more examples. Calling something "Alpha and Omega" is not "Greek" anymore, it is English; just as saying that I am full of "joy" today is not talking in French, but in English.

Sure, those languages may have words that have entered into the English language in some form or another. I get that. But one thing is for sure, the Nephites in 33AD did not know Greek and the Greek alphabet from Mormon Jesus's lips would have been gobbledygook.

You've still not addressed the "senine" issue. Here we see, Joseph & Oliver dutifully covered their tracks on the money issue but the Greek went right over their heads. You, zerinus, are offering useless apologetics and are ignoring the obvious conclusion. Could it be that we just don't know everything there is to know about Greek, the same as Egyptology? Is there just something missing that is going over everyone's head? Well, that is pretty much the fallback for Mormon apologetics. It helps keep your dream alive.

[_Shulem]

You can't say "Timothy" is English and therefore not an indication that the Nephites knew a Greek name while at the same time saying "sheum" is an Akkadian word for grain. They must both be considered English words.

At that time, 33 AD, "Timothy" was no more English than Alpha & Omega was. Mormon apologetics simply has no rational answer. The Nephites couldn't have known those words. Thus we see, Timothy in 3 Nephi really is a fictional character made up by Joseph Smith who unknowingly introduced anachronistic words into his novel.

Smith was caught red handed.