Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on Faith-Promoting Rumor

[_Kishkumen]

For some reason apologetics now appears to me to being tough, meaning, harsh, meaning mean spirited for most of the time. I guess perhaps they think they come across as being valiant when their peers read them and so its ok to be verbally abusive... What they fail to see is how they look to all others. And until the brethren rein them in, the social problems of people leaving are going to continue. No one wants to be part of a crowd that is so high and mighty arrogant, and so rude and gruff with others. For whatever reason, the apologists simply cannot grasp how they look to the world when they are trying to defend their Gospel.

Well, it seems to me that the number of jerk apologists is pretty low. You have a core of classic-FARMS jerks, a few more in their orbit, and then their jerky fan club. And, to be fair, even the people who behave like jerks when they do apologetics are not always in that mode. But yes, when they are in that mode, and they show up to comment on something, they tend to look pretty bad. But so too, however, do many of us look bad when we are blowing off steam about Mormonism. There are definitely ex-Mo counterparts to these jerks. And, just as you hear that apologist so and so is really a great guy in person, I am sure the same is true of some highly abrasive ex-Mos.

[_Shulem]

Well, it seems to me that the number of jerk apologists is pretty low. You have a core of classic-FARMS jerks, a few more in their orbit, and then their jerky fan club. And, to be fair, even the people who behave like jerks when they do apologetics are not always in that mode. But yes, when they are in that mode, and they show up to comment on something, they tend to look pretty bad. But so too, however, do many of us look bad when we are blowing off steam about Mormonism. There are definitely ex-Mo counterparts to these jerks. And, just as you hear that apologist so and so is really a great guy in person, I am sure the same is true of some highly abrasive ex-Mos.

Right. The apologists however are supposed to be Christlike in everything they do and say. They are supposed to be Christians, whatever that is. More is expected of them when it comes to online behavior because they are the ones that say "look at our true church and we have the Spirit". So there you have it. They need to be on their best behavior as they continue to work their way to heaven. Us, on the other hand are going to heaven automatically (assuming there is one) because assuming there is a God he is gracious and loving, nothing like the apologists.

Life is wonderful. It's so liberating to be free from bondage of the church. It was a nightmare and it's over now but I still have those memories. That sets me off at times, just remembering how I was a slave to that institution. It makes me mad. And yes, when the church tried to stop gay marriage it really made me mad. I'm sure you can understand that. I just can't forgive the church for that and I want to hit back, hard.

[_Shulem]

For some reason apologetics now appears to me to being tough, meaning, harsh, meaning mean spirited for most of the time. I guess perhaps they think they come across as being valiant when their peers read them and so its ok to be verbally abusive... What they fail to see is how they look to all others. And until the brethren rein them in, the social problems of people leaving are going to continue. No one wants to be part of a crowd that is so high and mighty arrogant, and so rude and gruff with others. For whatever reason, the apologists simply cannot grasp how they look to the world when they are trying to defend their Gospel.

It's frustrating and difficult for apologists to defend the truth claims, moreover the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham are becoming increasingly difficult to defend as the counter arguments have intensified and matured into rock solid arguments. Who wants to defend the Book of Abraham? John Gee doesn't want to talk about it. Nobody does, well, perhaps Ed Goble does because he's grasping through his last straw, which is a very long straw indeed.

The apologists are angry because they are under attack and constantly being reminded how terrible their arguments are. What Book of Abraham apologist wants to have to answer for the horrible Explanations of Facsimile No. 3? None of them do! It's a bloody nightmare and it's frustrating. Even William Schryver is on record for saying he would be happy enough to see the Facsimiles just go away. It's embarrassing to have to defend Mormonism. Everything from polygamy to Book of Mormon anachronisms constantly grinds away at one's faith. They get angry when we remind them about how bad it is.

[_moksha]

Any chance Blake Ostler was right and Dr. Midgley's recent posts have been from beyond the veil or at least partially translated?

[_Gadianton]

There are definitely ex-Mo counterparts to these jerks.

True, Reverend. I'm sure there are blogs and boards out there with angry players on both sides none of us have heard of before.

There is just one detail that makes it different for the apologists we cross paths with occasionally. Ultimately, they are connected to the Church leadership at "the highest levels", and have done their work -- and it would seem thanks to certain recent revelations in a comment section out there, their dirtiest work -- at the direction of the Brethren. Perhaps not at the direction of a unified body of Brethren, as we might speculate, but the way they tell it, they've always had the full endorsement of the Church, and continue to do so. Even now, at least one GA appraises them of efforts to pull the plug on the new MI.

Name calling is always bad, but name calling and self-aggrandizement backed by a multi-billion dollar corporate face will always trigger public outrage. Gemli had some pretty good insights to that one day, as the fuming cantankerous cursed the "fake doctors" crowding their sacred comment section.

[_Kishkumen]

Right. The apologists however are supposed to be Christlike in everything they do and say. They are supposed to be Christians, whatever that is. More is expected of them when it comes to online behavior because they are the ones that say "look at our true church and we have the Spirit". So there you have it. They need to be on their best behavior as they continue to work their way to heaven. Us, on the other hand are going to heaven automatically (assuming there is one) because assuming there is a God he is gracious and loving, nothing like the apologists.

I am very sympathetic to that point of view. Of course, Jesus sometimes seems like a real jerk too. We just have a real saccharine view of him that, for some people, is centered around Jesus the gentle lamb who saved a fly with a broken wing. There is also the angry Jesus who promised to break up families and chased money changers out of the temple. All I am saying here is that it is possible to understand why the apologists feel justified in their very human reaction to attacks on their cherished beliefs.

Life is wonderful. It's so liberating to be free from bondage of the church. It was a nightmare and it's over now but I still have those memories. That sets me off at times, just remembering how I was a slave to that institution. It makes me mad. And yes, when the church tried to stop gay marriage it really made me mad. I'm sure you can understand that. I just can't forgive the church for that and I want to hit back, hard.

Indeed! Yes, I see that. And I hope you don't think I am trying to dump on you personally here. What I am saying is that Smoot is a human being who is upset about the CES Letter and ex-mormon reddit and he wants to hit back. Yes, the LDS Church is the institution he is ultimately defending, but I am sure he also feels that he is defending people who have testimonies, love the Church, and are hurt when people attack it. Smoot imagines that some of these people who end up on ex-mormon reddit could have been happy members of the LDS Church if only they had read the right things and processed them in the right way. He is going to fight that fight, and you and I are not going to like the way he does it.

That's the way it is, and I just want to look at it with clear eyes to the extent that I am able.

[_Kishkumen]

There is just one detail that makes it different for the apologists we cross paths with occasionally. Ultimately, they are connected to the Church leadership at "the highest levels", and have done their work -- and it would seem thanks to certain recent revelations in a comment section out there, their dirtiest work -- at the direction of the Brethren. Perhaps not at the direction of a unified body of Brethren, as we might speculate, but the way they tell it, they've always had the full endorsement of the Church, and continue to do so. Even now, at least one GA appraises them of efforts to pull the plug on the new MI.

Name calling is always bad, but name calling and self-aggrandizement backed by a multi-billion dollar corporate face will always trigger public outrage. Gemli had some pretty good insights to that one day, as the fuming cantankerous cursed the "fake doctors" crowding their sacred comment section.

Yep. I resonate with your perspective on this, Gad. You know, I can't for the life of me understand how anyone could have voted for Trump, and I understand much less how any decent person could continue to support Trump at this point. It is possible, although I do not want it to be true, that some people lack the ability to see the problems with Trump. I don't think that reflects well on them. My opinion.

For the reasons you lay out above, I don't really understand Smoot. That said, there are other ways of looking at this. The Mopologists, you see, are among those who know the GAs as real people who say and do virtuous things. From their perspective, our criticisms of the GAs are baffling in the extreme. We are the carpers, cavilers, and critics of good men. The apologists obviously, by their own admission, do not see the Church as a faceless corporation. They see honorable and lovable grandpa type guys who stand up for helping the poor, doing the right thing, and testifying of Jesus Christ.

So our view is, to them, a monstrous distortion of the truth. Faceless corporation? How could that be? Evil designs to control and suppress others? No! A mission to save all humankind! To lighten the load of the suffering. You and I have it all wrong, Gad. If only we could see the truth, namely, that the LDS Church has the keys, and the authority from God, to save all of the children of God eternally and make them supernally blissful forever.

And you and I are attempting to spoil that. We are hurting good people who are striving for that eternal happiness in God's presence. Just sitting here having this conversation, we endanger some poor soul who clicks on the wrong link after a Google search. What if that person read something here that led them astray, that imperiled their eternal blessings?

If you really believe all of that, then I don't think you will have any compunction about portraying certain apostates as Smoot did in his allegory. And your friends engaged in the same important fight will pat you on the back. And the GAs will support your efforts in whatever way they can, without appearing to punch down themselves.

[_Lemmie]

Blake
SEPTEMBER 13, 2019 AT 11:12 AM

The personal attacks tell me all that I need to know about you cowards hiding behind anonymous posts. But I have the resources to find out who you are — and I will.

And then what? What's the point of making threats like this?

[_Doctor Steuss]

Blake
SEPTEMBER 13, 2019 AT 11:12 AM

The personal attacks tell me all that I need to know about you cowards hiding behind anonymous posts. But I have the resources to find out who you are — and I will.

And then what? What's the point of making threats like this?

He's going to tell their moms that they're being mean.

[_Shulem]

Blake
SEPTEMBER 13, 2019 AT 11:12 AM

The personal attacks tell me all that I need to know about you cowards hiding behind anonymous posts. But I have the resources to find out who you are — and I will.

And then what? What's the point of making threats like this?

Blakyboy is getting mad! Ha ha ha ha!



Hey Blakeboy, what's the king's name in Facsimile No. 3?