Among other things, Poster One faults me for my apologetic lack of balance on the topic of Brigham Young — which, I’ll merely say, strikes me as quite ironically funny and which made me laugh aloud
Interestingly, he concludes the entry with a plea for donations to Interpreter’s film projects, including their colonialist activities in Africa. I admit that *I* laughed aloud when I saw him quoting “The Man in the Arena” the other day. When will *he* be making the pilgrimage out to the DRC, I wonder?
"If, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
Among other things, Poster One faults me for my apologetic lack of balance on the topic of Brigham Young — which, I’ll merely say, strikes me as quite ironically funny and which made me laugh aloud
Interestingly, he concludes the entry with a plea for donations to Interpreter’s film projects, including their colonialist activities in Africa. I admit that *I* laughed aloud when I saw him quoting “The Man in the Arena” the other day. When will *he* be making the pilgrimage out to the DRC, I wonder?
It’s like having Donald Trump accuse you of being an attention whore.
"He disturbs the laws of his country, he forces himself upon women, and he puts men to death without trial.” ~Otanes on the monarch, Herodotus Histories 3.80.
Interestingly, he concludes the entry with a plea for donations to Interpreter’s film projects, including their colonialist activities in Africa. I admit that *I* laughed aloud when I saw him quoting “The Man in the Arena” the other day. When will *he* be making the pilgrimage out to the DRC, I wonder?
It’s like having Donald Trump accuse you of being an attention whore.
I am struggling to see how Brigham Young is saintly. Polygamy is a real problem to me. Brigham thought that the Supreme Deity of the universe deemed that a man should have access to as many women as he could marry and support, while a woman had to share her husband with as many wives as her husband desired to wed. Consider how that works out in a situation like Brigham's.
Over the course of his life, Brigham Young married 56 women (he was rumored by other sources to have been married to more than that, but we'll stick to the relatively well documented wives). Let's say that he was only married to 30 of them at once in the peak of his number of living wives. That would mean that at best Brigham could have spent one day a month with each wife if he was perfectly equal in how he divided up his time with these wives.
Now let's be very generous and imagine that one third of those women for whatever reason were perfectly happy by nature not to see Brigham Young more than once a month. That would leave 20 women of 30 dissatisfied or suffering on some level to be in this marital arrangement. Maybe half of these were tolerably dissatisfied but half of them were suffering very badly in this situation. Perhaps that first half tolerated this suffering by viewing their marriage as a spiritual trial or God's requirement for exaltation, but, had they only been in a situation where they were able to marry monogamously, they might have been much happier and more socially and sexually satisfied.
Still, this is the system that Young fought to protect. One in which he "built up a kingdom" by collecting wives like acres of land or cows in the barn. Because, seriously, having more wives was deemed to be building up a larger kingdom. Quantity over quality.
It's clear, however, that the ideal of equal visitation would not be the case, and that Young would inevitably like some of his wives, probably a few of them, very much more than the others. Try as he might to be fair, this situation was calculated to make the other wives suffer. I know that early Mormons living in this arrangement viewed their trials of jealousy as spiritual tests to be overcome, but the truth is that it was just a crap system that insured a larger number of people would be without something important: the opportunity to be married (fewer available women for single men to marry), the opportunity to marry someone they loved (young lovers separated when the old bishop swoops in), or the opportunity to spend a lot of time with the spouse they were supposed to be faithful to and cherish.
How does a man truly cherish 30 wives equally? Is it the case that all 30 of these women only deserve 1/30th of the emotional support and companionship that their spouse gets? Do 1/10 of these women deserve more love than their peers or do 9/10 of them deserve less?
I don't see how this is a divine system or one that God commanded. I think it is one that men justified to themselves. I feel badly for my ancestors who were put through this because they were taught God demanded this sacrifice. I have to admit that without them, I would not be here, and so I have to grapple with this one. It is not easy. What is easy is to reject it myself. I reject the notion that God demands people to collect multiple spouses to get into the highest heaven. I don't have much respect for collecting spouses in this way. But most importantly, I think that time has vindicated those who view this as an unstable and harmful social system. Brigham Young, more than anyone, practiced, protected, and protracted the "Principle."
If this is what Zion was to be about--and I do believe BY was serious about Zion in his own way--then it is just about the dumbest utopia designed. May it always remain a no place.
"He disturbs the laws of his country, he forces himself upon women, and he puts men to death without trial.” ~Otanes on the monarch, Herodotus Histories 3.80.
To drive the point even further home, remember that Brigham was the most powerful man in the Mountain West. Most people who are in busy occupations know how difficult it is to give your family the proper care and attention in a monogamous relationship. Now put yourself in Brigham's shoes. How attentive to family matters could the man have possibly been? How attentive to each child and each spouse? Each in-law? How were these people being robbed of attention so this one powerful man could have a bevy of spouses and children? Effectively, they had very little of a husband and father. He had a church to run, a colonization to run, a land to govern. How much time could he spare for his huge family?
"He disturbs the laws of his country, he forces himself upon women, and he puts men to death without trial.” ~Otanes on the monarch, Herodotus Histories 3.80.
To drive the point even further home, remember that Brigham was the most powerful man in the Mountain West. Most people who are in busy occupations know how difficult it is to give your family the proper care and attention in a monogamous relationship. Now put yourself in Brigham's shoes. How attentive to family matters could the man have possibly been? How attentive to each child and each spouse? Each in-law? How were these people being robbed of attention so this one powerful man could have a bevy of spouses and children? Effectively, they had very little of a husband and father. He had a church to run, a colonization to run, a land to govern. How much time could he spare for his huge family?
I hope seeing Brigham on the big screen as a very attractive young man in a picturesque whitewashed depiction of the 1800s softens your heart on this matter, soothing your searing hatred for one of the Lord’s anointed.
I hope seeing Brigham on the big screen as a very attractive young man in a picturesque whitewashed depiction of the 1800s softens your heart on this matter, soothing your searing hatred for one of the Lord’s anointed.
Precisely. That's the point. To make Brigham look a lot more appealing than he actually was in real life. Same with Joseph Smith.
It is to be expected, of course. But I think that others have a right to share the other side of the story.
"He disturbs the laws of his country, he forces himself upon women, and he puts men to death without trial.” ~Otanes on the monarch, Herodotus Histories 3.80.
I hope seeing Brigham on the big screen as a very attractive young man in a picturesque whitewashed depiction of the 1800s softens your heart on this matter, soothing your searing hatred for one of the Lord’s anointed.
Precisely. That's the point. To make Brigham look a lot more appealing than he actually was in real life. Same with Joseph Smith.
It is to be expected, of course. But I think that others have a right to share the other side of the story.
Dan has also said the point is to make exceptional religious artwork that appeals to people outside of the religious context. He wants to be Mormonism’s Michelangelo.
I think it’s pretty obvious he is failing at that, too.
Dan has also said the point is to make exceptional religious artwork that appeals to people outside of the religious context. He wants to be Mormonism’s Michelangelo.
I think it’s pretty obvious he is failing at that, too.
I have no issue with these movies being made or with the quality of the results. I enjoyed the first one well enough. Everybody Wang Chung sent me his BluRay of it, and I will hold onto that. I will see this new one, too. I just don’t buy into the historical narrative that the LDS Church has built around these events, and I stand by my view that BY was a bully and a tyrant. I never said he was worthless or that he did not accomplish a lot. People are complex. When hagiography enters my life, I feel compelled to challenge it.
Don’t trust in the arm of flesh, after all.
"He disturbs the laws of his country, he forces himself upon women, and he puts men to death without trial.” ~Otanes on the monarch, Herodotus Histories 3.80.
Give me truth and clarity, not fluff and charity'