D&C 127:2

[I Have Questions]

It's still a free country, and we ought to criticize the hell out of religions that make bold claims and take peoples' time and money. It's their choice to get fleeced, but it's our choice to offer the other side of the story.

I won't argue with the fact that there is/should be a freedom to exercise judgement on your religious/non-religious impulses and act on them. One thing to keep in mind is that one person's belief/opinion that believers are being "fleeced" is just that.

Opinion/belief.

And that's about as far as it goes. Many people in and out of the LDS Church truly believe they are being blessed in some form or fashion for making a sacrifice to what they see as the greater good. And they're not stupid.

Regards,
MG

The people that invested money with Bernie Madoff weren’t stupid people. Bright people do stupid things. You’re guilty of making assertions you are not qualified to make. When you say “Many people believe…”‘you are positioning yourself as knowledgeable about the inner workings of many people’s hearts and minds. I’d be keen to know just how many people have shared their reasonings with you. So specifically how many people are you qualified to speak for?

[Abaddon]

You know MG, it reminds me of a guy from my ward during my childhood who did a hefty prison stint for defrauding a good number of folks in our ward and elsewhere. I still recall the night he came to our home to rope in my parents, who fortunately turned him down. The most spiritual, self-assured man you'd ever met. The testimonies he bore were off the scale. And when he was finally done in, like Joseph Smith, he didn't let it get him down. He doubled down -- as I was told -- on his conviction that he was in the right. He even insisted on defending himself in trial, that's how confident he was.

Were we in the same ward? Lol.

A HP GL in our ward tried to swindle my father but successfully swindled others and spent many years in federal prison for it. Something, something, Spirit says this is a great investment to make, etc...

[I Have Questions]

It's still a free country, and we ought to criticize the hell out of religions that make bold claims and take peoples' time and money. It's their choice to get fleeced, but it's our choice to offer the other side of the story.

I won't argue with the fact that there is/should be a freedom to exercise judgement on your religious/non-religious impulses and act on them. One thing to keep in mind is that one person's belief/opinion that believers are being "fleeced" is just that.

Opinion/belief.

And that's about as far as it goes. Many people in and out of the LDS Church truly believe they are being blessed in some form or fashion for making a sacrifice to what they see as the greater good. And they're not stupid.

Regards,
MG

Well no. It’s not just opinion/belief. It is well-documented that affinity fraud is a much bigger problem with Mormonism, and more specifically, Utah Mormonism, than anywhere else, and with any other group of people. If they’re not stupid, why are Utah Mormons so gullible when it comes to people they know defrauding them?

[sock puppet]

I won't argue with the fact that there is/should be a freedom to exercise judgement on your religious/non-religious impulses and act on them. One thing to keep in mind is that one person's belief/opinion that believers are being "fleeced" is just that.

Opinion/belief.

And that's about as far as it goes. Many people in and out of the LDS Church truly believe they are being blessed in some form or fashion for making a sacrifice to what they see as the greater good. And they're not stupid.

Regards,
MG

Well no. It’s not just opinion/belief. It is well-documented that affinity fraud is a much bigger problem with Mormonism, and more specifically, Utah Mormonism, than anywhere else, and with any other group of people. If they’re not stupid, why are Utah Mormons so gullible when it comes to people they know defrauding them?

Because they feel "special" and that God is looking for them in ways he does not non-Mormons.

[huckelberry]

I believe MG intended to ask if folks here feel guilty for walking on the precious flowers of the LDS message and organization.

I do not, I enjoy questions, they can at times help me understand, or at least learn. If I encourage somebody to ask questions and see further than habit I incline to think that a good deed.

This board is a land where people exchange ideas.

[sock puppet]

I believe MG intended to ask if folks here feel guilty for walking on the precious flowers of the LDS message and organization.

I do not, I enjoy questions, they can at times help me understand, or at least learn. If I encourage somebody to ask questions and see further than habit I incline to think that a good deed.

This board is a land where people exchange ideas.

"The LDS message and organization" are as delicate and subject to wilting easily as any flower. The organization peaked in the early 1990s, just as the internet was taking hold and information became available. Numbers have stagnated and declined, no more the frantic, pre-internet growth. The message keeps getting pared down (as the mopes like to say, to just the essentials for salvation). It is a far cry from the church and movement that it was when Spencer Kimball and Ezra Taft Benson were at the helm.

[Gadianton]

Were we in the same ward? Lol.

Probably not given how common this kind of activity is within the Church. However, PM me with his first name if you think there's a chance. There's some really wild information I'd love to post here because it really paints the profile of the optimistic priesthood leader who suffers persecution at the hands of his enemies, but it's so nuts as to be too specific and I have a great deal of sympathy for the guy's family.

[Limnor]

I believe MG intended to ask if folks here feel guilty for walking on the precious flowers of the LDS message and organization.

I do not, I enjoy questions, they can at times help me understand, or at least learn. If I encourage somebody to ask questions and see further than habit I incline to think that a good deed.

This board is a land where people exchange ideas.

Huck, I think you’ve got the right metaphorical read—it assumes the ideas are so delicate that even honest questions count as damage. Most of us are simply doing what you describe—exchanging thoughts so we can see past habit. Strong ideas usually welcome that kind of engagement rather than assign guilt to the person posing the question, though some patterns of sensitivity do tend to repeat themselves. But that’s another conversation.

[MG 2.0]

I believe MG intended to ask if folks here feel guilty for walking on the precious flowers of the LDS message and organization.

I do not, I enjoy questions, they can at times help me understand, or at least learn. If I encourage somebody to ask questions and see further than habit I incline to think that a good deed.

This board is a land where people exchange ideas.

Huck, I think you’ve got the right metaphorical read—it assumes the ideas are so delicate that even honest questions count as damage. Most of us are simply doing what you describe—exchanging thoughts so we can see past habit. Strong ideas usually welcome that kind of engagement rather than assign guilt to the person posing the question, though some patterns of sensitivity do tend to repeat themselves. But that’s another conversation.

I wouldn't necessarily think that critics feel guilty. I haven't seen any evidence of that anyway.

Regards,
MG

[Limnor]

Huck, I think you’ve got the right metaphorical read—it assumes the ideas are so delicate that even honest questions count as damage. Most of us are simply doing what you describe—exchanging thoughts so we can see past habit. Strong ideas usually welcome that kind of engagement rather than assign guilt to the person posing the question, though some patterns of sensitivity do tend to repeat themselves. But that’s another conversation.

I wouldn't necessarily think that critics feel guilty. I haven't seen any evidence of that anyway.

Regards,
MG

It’s not that critics feel guilt—I agree there’s no evidence of that. I’m describing how sometimes honest inquiry can be reframed as coming from a place of guilt, which is a different thing entirely.