Nostalgia

[Limnor]

for what it's worth it's Brant Gardner.

Correction received—thanks.

[Philo Sofee]

YES! And who was the one who always discussed Mesoamerica in the Book of Mormon with Brant Gardiner? Man they had some looooooooong threads!!!

Beastie was all about Mesoamerica but I don’t remember if her discussions were with Gardner.

Beastie was a beast too! No, it wasn't her, but she is the one who pointed out to me that Gardner could not win any of the arguments he was having because of his Mormon bias. The guy he was discussing it with was over the top intelligent. I suspected he was some kind of archaeologist/historian. Brant just could never convince him his method was legitimate......

[Philo Sofee]

for what it's worth it's Brant Gardner.

Yes, thank you, my bad again.......ayiyi

[Philo Sofee]

Ah! OK, got it. I thought you were talking about him being involved with the Book of Abraham stuff.......sorry, my bad....... I vaguely remember the topic being slaughtered all over the place.,.,... I do remember seeing many times the Presidential Newsroom comments. What amazes me is how long the church took that tactic for responses! Or do they still do so? I honestly haven't kept track of the blithering idiots all that much these last several years. I'm having too much fun doing what I'm doing now to worry about what they think. ("They" being church leaders.)

I said then and I still believe it. The forces behind the janky essays from the newsroom/church were from us. Us being — the DAMU. I do not think that Peterson and Midgley were a force leading to those, neither do I think the rabid RFM crowd was a force. It was the smart as hell writers that were repeatedly hitting heads with Midgley and the M* and Archipelago writers. Also, remember that around that time, even Dehlin and Carol Lyn were playing the NOM cards while the rest of us were smacking the hell out of Otterson. Dehlin was playing games for the years he was in school and playing politics on the campus of USU for a BS degree. The rest of us were playing FU with the newsroom.

Oh yeah! Dehlin was still in the church and not yet a target of Peterson and Midgley....... if they would have only kept their dicks in their pants, Dehlin would never have become the force he is. Oh they were cackling thrilled to be totally destroying Dehlin when they finally noticed him and were saying so on the private FAIR email list. And then it came out that he knew Holland, and Holland went over and crucified them for attacking other LDS folks and forbid them publishing anything against Dehlin. By then Peterson was a dead man walking and just didn't know it. Midgley? He's just a dead head.

[Gadianton]

Beastie was all about Mesoamerica but I don’t remember if her discussions were with Gardner.

They had it out on MDDB. That was huge. Dan brought the entire ANE faculty onto the board while Beastie took them all on and wiped the floor over Sorenson's deceptive footnotes. It's way back in my mind but the particular issue was quite a scandal for the apologists and they had no way out, other than Scott Gordan made an "executive decision" to ban Beastie to stop the bleeding. One of the most epic losses they endured of all time.

[Whiskey]

I said then and I still believe it. The forces behind the janky essays from the newsroom/church were from us. Us being — the DAMU. I do not think that Peterson and Midgley were a force leading to those, neither do I think the rabid RFM crowd was a force. It was the smart as hell writers that were repeatedly hitting heads with Midgley and the M* and Archipelago writers. Also, remember that around that time, even Dehlin and Carol Lyn were playing the NOM cards while the rest of us were smacking the hell out of Otterson. Dehlin was playing games for the years he was in school and playing politics on the campus of USU for a BS degree. The rest of us were playing FU with the newsroom.

Oh yeah! Dehlin was still in the church and not yet a target of Peterson and Midgley....... if they would have only kept their dicks in their pants, Dehlin would never have become the force he is. Oh they were cackling thrilled to be totally destroying Dehlin when they finally noticed him and were saying so on the private FAIR email list. And then it came out that he knew Holland, and Holland went over and crucified them for attacking other LDS folks and forbid them publishing anything against Dehlin. By then Peterson was a dead man walking and just didn't know it. Midgley? He's just a dead head.

Great memory. I think there was more nuance than that. But that is the general idea. The so-called hit piece was hysterical. The so-called return to church by Dehlin was even more hysterical. That was when Kish went bananas re the omelets too. The whole thing was a blast and a hoot and a great time.

I would have no problem catching up with Dehlin and getting his recollection of it all. The entirety of the story, a decade or more later, is truly epic. Hell, I remember going to see Olson and Bois and buying a signed book from them for Dehlin. There was a time when we were all talking and had something in common.

[Philo Sofee]

Oh yeah! Dehlin was still in the church and not yet a target of Peterson and Midgley....... if they would have only kept their dicks in their pants, Dehlin would never have become the force he is. Oh they were cackling thrilled to be totally destroying Dehlin when they finally noticed him and were saying so on the private FAIR email list. And then it came out that he knew Holland, and Holland went over and crucified them for attacking other LDS folks and forbid them publishing anything against Dehlin. By then Peterson was a dead man walking and just didn't know it. Midgley? He's just a dead head.

Great memory. I think there was more nuance than that. But that is the general idea. The so-called hit piece was hysterical. The so-called return to church by Dehlin was even more hysterical. That was when Kish went bananas re the omelets too. The whole thing was a blast and a hoot and a great time.

I would have no problem catching up with Dehlin and getting his recollection of it all. The entirety of the story, a decade or more later, is truly epic. Hell, I remember going to see Olson and Bois and buying a signed book from them for Dehlin. There was a time when we were all talking and had something in common.

Agree entirely, there is more nuance than I noted. I was just throwing something out for general context..... I talk to Dehlin quite a bit actually..... I have no idea if he is willing to talk about it, but I'd be happy to ask him and let you know....... and you say, "I remember going to see Olson and Bois and buying a signed book from them for Dehlin." Those names sound vaguely familiar, not trying to be a dumb ass here, but what book did they write that you gave to Dehlin? Would you mind refreshing my memory of who they are? Thanks man.

[Philo Sofee]

Beastie was all about Mesoamerica but I don’t remember if her discussions were with Gardner.

They had it out on MDDB. That was huge. Dan brought the entire ANE faculty onto the board while Beastie took them all on and wiped the floor over Sorenson's deceptive footnotes. It's way back in my mind but the particular issue was quite a scandal for the apologists and they had no way out, other than Scott Gordan made an "executive decision" to ban Beastie to stop the bleeding. One of the most epic losses they endured of all time.

YES! Yes, I remember that! Oh my god that was beyond epic. Here she is a little miss absolutely unimportant NOBODY decimating the entire ANE scholar phalanx that was sicced on her, and then the cherry on top is wiping out Sorenson....... Man I wonder if that is still available somewhere.......... I was still doing the apologist thing at that point, and I'm telling you, that one I would NOT touch.......it spooked me that someone could hold their own and then show Sorenson was fallible. Look, ya gotta understand the mindset man, NO ONE could refute Sorenson, we didn't even think Michael Coe did, but this nobody Beastie? Taking him out on sources?!? Good Lord that caused a lot of loss of sleep in apologist land......

[Whiskey]

and you say, "I remember going to see Olson and Bois and buying a signed book from them for Dehlin." Those names sound vaguely familiar, not trying to be a dumb ass here, but what book did they write that you gave to Dehlin? Would you mind refreshing my memory of who they are? Thanks man.

David Boies and Ted Olson wrote Redeeming the Dream. They were two of the biggest lawyers in the USA at the time. Probably most famous for their arguments in Gore v Bush or whatever the hell that was.

[Philo Sofee]

and you say, "I remember going to see Olson and Bois and buying a signed book from them for Dehlin." Those names sound vaguely familiar, not trying to be a dumb ass here, but what book did they write that you gave to Dehlin? Would you mind refreshing my memory of who they are? Thanks man.

David Boies and Ted Olson wrote Redeeming the Dream. They were two of the biggest lawyers in the USA at the time. Probably most famous for their arguments in Gore v Bush or whatever the hell that was.

Ya think they're still relevant? Would it be a good book for me to look into?